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Did my bottom set run into trouble here?

  
 
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pokerfan
Old 08-01-2007, 04:45 AM     Post subject: Did my bottom set run into trouble here? #1 (permalink)  
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No solid reads on my opponent,just his stats over 214 hands 19.4/13.8/3.0(aggression on the flop).
he was in good stealing position and probably raised some s hit.
in this situation, should i make 3-bet against his range and try to take down the pot right away with my 44 preflop? As played, i was a bit scared of his checkraise though. what you guys think is better play on my part? push or just call?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($116)
MP2 ($340.95)
MP3 ($151.10)
CO ($274)
Hero ($209.45)
SB ($200)
BB ($438.40)
UTG ($35)
UTG+1 ($111.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4, 4.
5 folds, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $8, 2 folds.

Flop: ($19) 8, T, 4 (2 players)
CO bets $12, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($43) 5 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $20, CO raises to $70, Hero ??
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NLHE lahooozaher
Old 08-01-2007, 06:02 AM #2 (permalink)  
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wow, against a compitent opponent I'd rather fold preflop than call. It really looks like he has a bigger set or 67 here with this action. It depends on his read of you to and how likely you are to have a monster in this spot as opposed to JT-AT. I'm not saying I'd fold but it seems that a decent player wouldn't play a worse hand this way.
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Ravageur
Old 08-01-2007, 06:21 AM #3 (permalink)  
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meh, if villain thinks you might be donkish/float too much etc.. he would/could definitely do this with overpairs/bluffs/top pair etc.. (even Tags). I think what's more important than villain's stats though are how you think you are viewed by him.

That being said, there is no way felting this is a mistake and i'm happy to get it in here. I think folding is the only mistake no matter results.

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Deanglow
Old 08-01-2007, 01:26 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Raise the flop to $40. I find showing aggression on the flop on these kinds of boards rather than on the turn makes your opponent more likely to put you on mid pair or A10 rather than a huge hand (your set). You turn bet is way to small, bet $30.
As played, I think you have to push this. If you think he can do this on a straight bluff, wait till the river when he auto-sticks it in.
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pokerfan
Old 08-01-2007, 01:47 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
You turn bet is way to small, bet $30.
As played, I think you have to push this. If you think he can do this on a straight bluff, wait till the river when he auto-sticks it in.
when this guy checked on the turn, i really figured he got nothing but some high cards. so i just made some relatively small bet. However, when he suddenly checkrasied me , i felt unhappy, scared and just called trying to see what he was going to do on the river.

Hero calls $50.
River: ($183) 6 (2 players)
CO bets $126, Hero ???
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Deanglow
Old 08-01-2007, 02:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Wow, given river action I want to make a hero fold but I don't think I'm capable. Call, cry, and reload when he shows 1010. Set over set is harsh but paying it off almost never wrong.
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djzcko
Old 08-01-2007, 02:29 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Villain is aggresive. You have a set. He could be pushing just about anything and could have even picked up a flush draw on the turn and sensed weakness and thus the riase. Call the turn raise and felt the river or just push the turn. If he has a set, then so be it. Chances are that he does not so folding is your worst option.
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pokerfan
Old 08-01-2007, 05:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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your guessing is very reasonable .Actually, he picked up double gun shot straight draw on the turn and semi-bluffed me at that point.
on the river, i thought for a long time but still made a crying call even though i knew i was in big trouble.
he turned over :Jh: . After reviewing the hand, i think i should've pushed over on the turn, made his decision much tougher and also punished his bold move regardless of whether he called or not.
anyways, its a Good lesson i learned in this hand against a tricky aggressive opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djzcko
Villain is aggresive. You have a set. He could be pushing just about anything and could have even picked up a flush draw on the turn and sensed weakness and thus the riase. Call the turn raise and felt the river or just push the turn. If he has a set, then so be it. Chances are that he does not so folding is your worst option.
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euphoricism
Old 08-02-2007, 06:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I would be content in life even if i never ever ever folded a set.
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martindcx1e
Old 08-02-2007, 08:30 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Raise flop so it is easier to get your stack in earlier.
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pokerfan
Old 08-03-2007, 09:54 PM #11 (permalink)  
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why not let this bluffer fire the second barrel if i just flat call on the flop? There's nothing dangerous on this flop ,really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Raise flop so it is easier to get your stack in earlier.
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martindcx1e
Old 08-03-2007, 10:16 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
why not let this bluffer fire the second barrel if i just flat call on the flop? There's nothing dangerous on this flop ,really.
If you have a read that says villain likes to fire 2nd barrells a lot with air then I guess you could just call. It doesn't sound like you have that read. Most people don't fire 2nd barrells very often without a real hand. If he is bluffing then he won't bet the turn and he will normally fold to that turn bet (This guy played his hand really weird). So when they don't have a hand they are normally folding after their first bet on the flop either way. When they do have a hand a raise is good to build the pot early so it is easier to get all-in later, and it is also good in case he shuts down after a scary turn card (overcard to his JJ or something like that). You aren't supposed to raise this flop because it is dangerous. There are other good reasons.
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euphoricism
Old 08-04-2007, 08:50 AM #13 (permalink)  
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As played, I'm ok with hero's smooth call on the turn. He's wa/wb, and theres almost no river card that can come that changes his holding. If he's behind, he's behind and he's getting stacked and there is nothing he can do about that. But if he's ahead, villain is betting very hard with probably two outs at best, and possibly bluffing. No reason to discourage villain from doing so.

But I still raise the flop.
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