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Hartlin
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04-15-2006, 07:07 PM
Post subject: Did I really make the right play here?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
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I am dealt AK of spades and, as you can see, we're raising back and forth. I put them on PP's, maybe 10's, K's wasn't likely. After pondering that raise (300), I figured I should probably trust my read and fold down TPTK thinking he hit a set there. They both flip over K's with low kickers... and I was furious... did I really make the right move here?
EDIT: Didn't even mean to just raise to 60, meant to put 150 or something, but it was an accident :S (preflop)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB (t1687)
UTG (t4145)
UTG+1 (t1485)
MP1 (t2170)
MP2 (t1565)
Hero (t1635)
Button (t1833)
SB (t1060)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A , K.
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, Hero raises to t60, 2 folds, BB calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30.
Flop: (t255) K , T , 4 (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets t30, MP2 raises to t60, Hero raises to t30, BB folds, MP1 calls t60, MP2 raises to t120, Hero calls t30, MP1 calls t30.
Turn: (t555) 5 (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets t300, Hero folds, MP1 calls t300.
River: (t1155) 6 (2 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks.
Final Pot: t1155
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Raise more on every street. Min bets get no value from weaker hands, tell you nothing about your opp's hands and give them great odds to draw out on you. Why do it?
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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you royally fucked this hand preflop and on the flop and it isnt even worth looking at. and you obviously made the wrong move if you folded the best hand. this isn't limit, quit playing like a faggot no offense. never EVER minraise or minbet unless you know exactly why you are doing it and you have enough experience to do it correctly, which when you do wont be very often, and it definitely wont be on this hand. and under no circumstances should you ever minraise a minbet unless the blinds are so huge in relation to your stack sizes that it would actually be a pressure point
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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And also just so you know, there is a tourney forum for tourney HH's.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Hartlin
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
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Didn't you read that I said I meant to raise to 5x BB or 150?
PS: Thanks for making me feel comfortable about even bothering to make a post when I'm just going to get flamed to hell over a play I made.
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Dude, don't take it personally. Learn from the experience and it won't happen again.
So you meant to raise more PF but you compounded this error by only min raising the flop. Any draw or pair is getting a great price to stick around and you have no idea if your good or not. As played, if you popped the flop up to ~250 you would have a much better chance of winning the pot.
We're only trying to help.
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Hartlin
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
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Not talking to you finky  Talking to bair.
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thnwkd
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bahamas
Posts: 436
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hartlin
Didn't you read that I said I meant to raise to 5x BB or 150?
PS: Thanks for making me feel comfortable about even bothering to make a post when I'm just going to get flamed to hell over a play I made.
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well you kinda earned it. don't take it personally. As a reader of this forum you should know better.
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Success is how high you bounce after hitting bottom.
IslandGrinder
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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his advice was spirited but not personal, and it was right. don't feel put off by it, no harm intended
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
you royally fucked this hand preflop and on the flop and it isnt even worth looking at. and you obviously made the wrong move if you folded the best hand. this isn't limit, quit playing like a faggot no offense. never EVER minraise or minbet unless you know exactly why you are doing it and you have enough experience to do it correctly, which when you do wont be very often, and it definitely wont be on this hand. and under no circumstances should you ever minraise a minbet unless the blinds are so huge in relation to your stack sizes that it would actually be a pressure point
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I think that was a little too harsh of a response, don't ya think?
Give advice, but don't flame people for asking questions. We're all here to help each other's games.
Original poster: Minimum raising is normally a bad idea, especially when you hold AKs, because it doesn't serve to narrow the field, only to sweeten the pot. Next time, raise it to 3 or 4x the big blind, so that either A) You don't have that many people who call you or B) People who call you have to pay out their nose for it.
From then on out, you're just going to have to trust your gut feel in regards to whether or not your TPTK is good. SOmetimes you'll run into sets and it's better to let go rather than get run into the ground. Good luck.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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i apologize for being harsh, but i'm trying to get across the point that its impossible to analyze a hand when it is played terribly from start to finish, because if you change one action then it changes every action from every player from then on out. therefore i suggest that newer players read previous threads so they dont give us the same scenario as 5 billion other people (minraising and minbetting)
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Hartlin
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
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I'm not someone who minraises often bair, I NEVER minraise to be honest... it was an accident. I know I played the hand bad, the question I was asking though was, did I make the right play in laying it down because I really felt someone hit a set...
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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Preflop:We know it was an accident;we are aware hero meant to raise to 3xBB-4xBB + 1 BB for each limper (say $300 to go with Big Slick suited my favorite hand in fact).
Flop: Hero should raise for info;so with one reraiser to $60 let's make it $200-$300 to go.
Turn:This would be tough;while no straight or flush draw has made it in villain could be drawing dead vs any set or two pair.In a tourney situation I may even opt to go broke on the flop alone and then if I was eliminated go do some housework to blow off some steam.
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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We really can't put them on hands simply because the betting was so light. I'm a fish, but I've stuck around with A-high for those amounts
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Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
you royally fucked this hand preflop and on the flop and it isnt even worth looking at. and you obviously made the wrong move if you folded the best hand. this isn't limit, quit playing like a faggot no offense. never EVER minraise or minbet unless you know exactly why you are doing it and you have enough experience to do it correctly, which when you do wont be very often, and it definitely wont be on this hand. and under no circumstances should you ever minraise a minbet unless the blinds are so huge in relation to your stack sizes that it would actually be a pressure point
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
i apologize for being harsh, but i'm trying to get across the point that its impossible to analyze a hand when it is played terribly from start to finish, because if you change one action then it changes every action from every player from then on out. therefore i suggest that newer players read previous threads so they dont give us the same scenario as 5 billion other people (minraising and minbetting)
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If its so impossible for a great player like yourself to analyze the hand then shut the fuck up and dont make condescending posts like this. Not all of us started off with the cash game skills of mahatma, so some of us have to learn the game by posting hands. If every street was played wrong, then show how and show how you would hve played it. What did your posting "stop being a faggot" and "you played this terribly" accomplish? Nothing. People come here to learn, not to listen to somebody telling them how much they suck without giving any advice, they have 2+2 for that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hartlin
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB (t1687)
UTG (t4145)
UTG+1 (t1485)
MP1 (t2170)
MP2 (t1565)
Hero (t1635)
Button (t1833)
SB (t1060)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A , K .
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, Hero raises to t60, 2 folds, BB calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30.
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Its already been said that you should raise more preflop to isolate specifically so you dont have to make as many tough decisions on the later streets and so that you dont give people the correct odds to play.
Quote:
Flop: (t255) K, T, 4 (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets t30, MP2 raises to t60, Hero raises to t30, BB folds, MP1 calls t60, MP2 raises to t120, Hero calls t30, MP1 calls t30.
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I think the action may be messed up here, but anyways, you have TPTK and there is a bet and a raise ahead of you, so they could easily have you beat, but you need to find out. Id raise to around the size of the pot, maybe a little less since that would be a huge raise given the size of the bet, either way you have to be making a sizeable raise here.
Quote:
Turn: (t555) 5 (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets t300, Hero folds, MP1 calls t300.
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MP2 made a bet for about 2/3 of the pot with a 5s on the turn and you folded. Here I dont see laying down this hand, especially with that turn card simply because it would be surprising to see that card help them and on the flop you feel that your hand is the best, and so it should still be the best here. I think a raise is probably best here.
My advice, unlike some, isnt absolute, so feel free to critique what I said as I very well could be off here.
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