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Did I psych myself out, or did I play this right?

  
 
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Zangief
Old 01-13-2005, 07:20 AM     Post subject: Did I psych myself out, or did I play this right? #1 (permalink)  
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Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed)

BB ($39.65)
UTG ($30.90)
UTG+1 ($65)
MP1 ($61.90)
MP2 ($8.80)
MP3 ($29.30)
Hero ($81.80)
Button ($9.75)
SB ($33.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Kd, As.
UTG raises to $0.5, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $2, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG raises to $3.5, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($7.35) 7d, 5d, Ks (2 players)
UTG bets $7.35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $14.70

Results below:
No showdown. UTG wins $14.70.

Since there was no showdown, I don't know what this guy actually had.

I put him on AA (or possibly KK) because of a few things:

1. The min-raise pre-flop. I've seen a lot of people who like to min-raise AA.

2. The re-raise after my raise pre-flop.

3. Betting into me on the flop. I think he was hoping I caught something and would re-raise him, then he could go all-in. (Brunson-style.)

Once I got to the flop, even after hitting the K, I was really wondering why I called his pre-flop re-raise. I should have either re-raised or folded. I felt like I was probably dominated, so I should have gotten out earlier.

This guy was a tight, smart player, as far as I could tell.

What do others think about this? Is my read completely off?

Should I have handled this differently?
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Fortune 500
Old 01-13-2005, 02:05 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Edit: Totally misread the hand. My fault.

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Zangief
Old 01-13-2005, 02:43 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortune 500
My guess'd be that he caught a set of 7s or 5s. Aces would have likely reraised you there.
Re-raised me when?

I think he re-raised me in all of the places it was possible for him to do so.
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Phew72
Old 01-13-2005, 02:58 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I suspect Fortune has mis-read your post.

I think you're right about AA or KK, especially if you have him for a smart player (although the min-raise PF is a puzzler). If he only had 5's or 7's in the hole, I would expect a call to your PF raise rather than the re-raise.

Post-flop, his big bet certainly indicates protection of his Aces or trip Kings from the flush draw.

I'd try and watch him for a similar play another time and hope to see what he's holding.
<Jessie May>Try reading that poker face.
<Grub Smith>There's a lot of face to read. It really is a big head.
 
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Fortune 500
Old 01-13-2005, 02:58 PM #5 (permalink)  
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removed

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Zangief
Old 01-13-2005, 05:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Maybe I'm wrong about the min raise with AA. I thought I've seen several people do this. I think they don't want to give away that they have AA, but they can't resist getting more money in the pot pre-flop with this hand.

Have others seen this before?
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dalecooper
Old 01-13-2005, 06:01 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I've seen that at times. I also wouldn't be very surprised if he had the same hand you did. It's hard to call down there, unfortunately, but I think he might have had AK.
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Zangief
Old 01-13-2005, 06:31 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I considered that, too ... but I think it's even less common to min raise with AK than with AA.

I think next time I will give it another re-raise pre-flop and see what happens. If they go all-in (and they are a good player), then I can just fold. If they just call ... then I might be more inclined to believe they don't have AA or KK. But I could still get burned by that, if they do.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-13-2005, 07:38 PM #9 (permalink)  
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The huge overbet after that sort of preflop action is hardly ever a bluff. Your best hope was to be splitting with another AK. Calling hoping to chop the pot is a big losing move.

-'rilla

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Penneywize
Old 01-13-2005, 08:11 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 You know, I could be way off, but I'm thinking he may have had AQ, AJ or AT suited. Depending on whether or not you're accurate about his type of play, it could explain the pre-flop min raise, testing the waters to see how others would react. When he re-raised he probably just wanted to be the aggressor going into the flop with a premium hand.

Seeing the two cards suited and a K on the flop gave him more than enough to represent with a pot-sized bet. If he had the KK or AA of course, he most likely would have bet the same way, but I'm thinking a semi-bluff is also a good possibility if his cards were indeed diamonds.
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knightwalker
Old 01-18-2005, 12:11 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The huge overbet after that sort of preflop action is hardly ever a bluff. Your best hope was to be splitting with another AK. Calling hoping to chop the pot is a big losing move.

-'rilla
Overbet? He raised the size of the pot, is that considered an overbet?
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michael1123
Old 01-18-2005, 12:33 AM #12 (permalink)  
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AA is very possible. KK is extremely unlikely. QQ even is much more likely than KK.

But if he's tight aggressive it was probably AA, AK, or QQ / JJ (since its heads up he could easily take a big stab at the pot to find out if you have a K, or even possibly push you off of one). I'd consider calling / raising on the flop and seeing how he reacted on the turn, but folding is perfectly fine as well though, as the hand he's representing is clearly AA. Aggressive players don't always have what they represent though.

From post flop play I thought it could be a flush draw until I took a closer look at the preflop action. Tight players don't minraise UTG and then reraise with hands like AQs or AJs. They'd more likely have just called your preflop raise and then check raised you on their draw if they were to play it aggressively.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-18-2005, 01:29 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The huge overbet after that sort of preflop action is hardly ever a bluff. Your best hope was to be splitting with another AK. Calling hoping to chop the pot is a big losing move.

-'rilla
Overbet? He raised the size of the pot, is that considered an overbet?
It's a bet big enough to assume he thinks he has the best hand.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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knightwalker
Old 01-18-2005, 03:11 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla


It's a bet big enough to assume he thinks he has the best hand.

-'rilla
So this bet would represent that he had a strong hand. But could a smart thinking player be capable at a bluff like this. I mean playing a bluff like he would with the best hand? I agree that walking away from a hand that may or may not be the best hand is not a bad idea. I am just wondering about how a pot sized bluff from the PFR into a King Rag Rag board would be percieved.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-18-2005, 04:05 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla


It's a bet big enough to assume he thinks he has the best hand.

-'rilla
So this bet would represent that he had a strong hand. But could a smart thinking player be capable at a bluff like this. I mean playing a bluff like he would with the best hand? I agree that walking away from a hand that may or may not be the best hand is not a bad idea. I am just wondering about how a pot sized bluff from the PFR into a King Rag Rag board would be percieved.
Yes, they can be bluffed. But that's only becuase smart players have learned not to overplay TPTK. His only option was to push here and unless you give your opponent no credit at all for knowing what he's doing, top pair is gonna lose.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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