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thelipkin
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08-16-2004, 09:48 AM
Post subject: Did I overbet a monster?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 49
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So, I am in a homegame tourney yesterday, $5 buy in, very wide range of skill with about equal representations of new players, arrogant but bad players, tight/passives and solid players of the 13 people. the tourney gets down to four handed with me having about 550 chips (each person started with 100, no rebuys or addons) guy to my left having about 120, to his left having about 400 and guy to my right with 300 or so. I am on the button, guy to my right folds, I raise 2x BB with K9o. SB folds, BB calls (400 stack, tight passive) so I immediately put him on pockets or at least one face card.
Flop comes KJ9 rainbow. He checks and here is where I think I screwed up. I figured he either had a straight draw or a pair so i put myself way ahead in the hand, however, chances are he probably had some sort of straight draw that I really did not want to get burned by. I know that if I bet all in he will fold (barring of course he flopped the straight), and if I dont bet all in but bet something to keep him in the hand I risk getting burned for all my chips. I go all in, he folds and after the hand my girlfriend who was spying my hole cards whispers that she would have slowplayed it having put him on an A. Did I chicken out trying to make him fold or should I have made more callable bets to get him off his straight draw while still making him think his top pair is best (depending on which one he had, although he could have totally missed everything and was playing Ax or something)?
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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If you know he will fold to an all-in bet it would be better to make this move when you miss, with what you hold here, I'd try to sucker him into making a bluff or value bet every round.
Occasionally you may be outdrawn but a good % of the time you are going to get lots of chips 
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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08-16-2004, 04:18 PM
Post subject: Re: Did I overbet a monster?
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#3 (permalink)
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{This post has been removed}
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thelipkin
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 49
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I was under the impression that when the table goes down to 4 handed K9 is a much better hand, especially when I am very bigstacked and have a good shot at buying pots if I miss. Was my raise really that poor of a play?
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{This post has been removed}
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hig13
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 25
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I don't think playing K9o from the button is a bad play, but it does make your post flop play more difficult unless you pair up both which you did. However, I don't believe that's you question. Did you over bet? Well, I don't think you did, or at least not for the same reason you girl friend did. When I believe I have the best hand at a given time during the hand, and like in this case there are more cards out there that can hurt me than can help me, I like to take pot as soon as I can. My slight adjustment would only be that I would have bet an amount that I would expect him to fold to if he were on the draw, but short of the amount that would kill me if I were to be betting into a straight or set. A called AI would have put a pretty nice dent in the stack.
The nice thing about going AI is that you keep him from coming back over the top 
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Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
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dutchfan
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 77
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I like that play if you put him on a draw, you never want to be outdrawn, so if he is on a draw, make him make a decision for all his chips..
it is better to win a small pot, than lose a large pot
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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Who is that posting with Ripp's name? Ripp would do that raise with 74o, so it can't be him.
Anyway, yes, I think you majorly overbet, and I completely agree with Toasty. If you know he'll fold, that all in makes a lot more sense when you have nothing. You hit two pair, and you make a bet that you know will only get called by him if he has a straight and has you completely beat?
I don't know how you've putting him on a draw without him acting after the flop yet, either. Do you mean if you made a reasonable bet and called, then you'd put him on a draw?
Anyway, even if you know he has an inside straight draw, that's a 16% chance of hitting after the flop. In this case, I'd bet at max half the size of the pot, giving him way incorrect odds to chase, but hope he calls with a pair or a draw. Then I'd probably bet half the pot again on the turn, if there's no one card straight draw possibility or paired board. If he's as tight as you say, it sounds like it'd be easy to read if he hit a straight, and you could easily lay the hand down. You're not risking your stack, you're looking to pick up the big pot that your big hand warrents.
Looking to pick up the blinds plus your small preflop raise once you hit the flop big seems silly to me.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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I'd agree with those who said that post-flop you should raise a callable amount but one that denies him proper pot odds to chase if he's on a draw.
I didn't think raising with K9o on the button was such a bad play 4-handed, so long as you haven't been raising like a maniac pre-flop every single hand. You hope to pick up the blinds, and if you get called you know you're behind but you have position. I've certainly tried to steal blinds with much worse cards than K9o. However, make no mistake that K9o is a pretty marginal hand...if you get called you are almost 100% certain to be facing a better hand, if not dominated. Still, you have post-flop position and can take it from there.
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