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Deepstacks, 1/2NL live. Too complex...?

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mxiu

06-07-2006, 07:20 PM Post subject: Deepstacks, 1/2NL live. Too complex...?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Live game with a lot of LAGs. Everyone plays a lot of suited trash. Villain in this case is quite aware and a decent player, and pegs me for a weak/tight nit.

Tell me what you think I'm trying to do, and I'll let you guys know what I'm thinking on each street.

I have 550~ and villain covers.

I'm dealt J9d UTG, and limp.

Folds to CO, who limps, villain on button limps, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: 2d 3h 5d

I lead for 10, CO (fish) calls, Villain min-raises to 20, blinds fold, I re-raise to 70, CO folds, villain thinks and calls.

Turn: 6d

I check, Villain bets 125, I call.

River: 10s

I bet 200, villain calls.

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magneticskull

06-07-2006, 08:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: NYC

Posts: 138

Ok, I'll bite like a good little fish...
[Note- Multiple edits]

You are limping hoping to hit a straight or maybe a flush if noones got A/K/Q X suited.
You bet the flop because you're drawing and hope to isolate.
Re raise reps a made straight. "pay me to draw for your flush or get out".

Check/Call the turn on your made flush... ?
I never like the check call... anxiously awaiting the logic there.

What did you think Villain had to be calling here? A4off? or did you think he was limping 66 or 77?

River: I think you are already dead here. Your bet puts you slightly less than all in... Are you thinking he's betting into a flush draw with a straight, set or an overpair? If so, Push em all in here. I'd fold.

I would lead the bet on the turn to see if he had the Ace high flush/scare away KXd/QXd. Or Check/Raise if you think he's the type to bluff and you think his bet was weak.

If you think the check/call is some sort of "psychout maneuver" I think you are working too hard.
You are just psyching yourself out of information and into a lost pot.

Shucks, did he turn over AXd for the nut flush? Personally, AXd is what I'm calling you with here. Especially limped from the button.

Any surprises?

There is no such thing as free checking...

mxiu

06-07-2006, 09:02 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Quote:

Originally Posted by magneticskull

Shucks, did he turn over AXd for the nut flush? Personally, AXd is what I'm calling you with here. Especially limped from the button.

Just answering this right now... I'm fairly sure he'd raise the nuts.

Fnord

06-07-2006, 09:21 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Pre-flop depends on the game texure.

I hate post-flop. You didn't draw cheap nor get paid off for the max against the player described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mxiu

06-07-2006, 09:24 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Pre-flop depends on the game texure.

I hate post-flop. You didn't draw cheap nor get paid off for the max against the player described.

But was I really trying to draw?

Weak/tight nit limps UTG, 3 bets big on a 235 board. What do you put me on?

Fnord

06-07-2006, 09:30 PM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

Weak/tight nit limps UTG, 3 bets big on a 235 board. What do you put me on?

Him is not You is not Me

--==Fnord's guide to what the fish put you on==--

Raise pre-flop:
AK, unless they have think you'll pay off if they hit. Then they put you on Aces.

Axx flop:
KK/QQ

Rags flop:
AK, over-played. Bottom pair good. A real poker player calls this down with 22.

Rags flop, Ace turns:
Now the situation calls for re-evaluation. You must certainly have Jacks.

2 tone board:
Flush draw, and they will slow way down when it hits on the river. But will look you up to keep you honest, just in case you're bluffing with a missed AK.

These fish are rather adaptive, adjusting their reads based on the action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mxiu

06-07-2006, 09:35 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

Weak/tight nit limps UTG, 3 bets big on a 235 board. What do you put me on?

--==Fnord's guide to what the fish put you on==--

He's not a fish though. He's a good live player that knows how to read people well. He has made very good folds in the past to me, and is quite aware. I also never show anything out of line.

Miffed22001

06-08-2006, 01:36 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

play more with miniraisors, especially live.

a500lbgorilla

06-08-2006, 02:13 PM

#9 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

I don't like what you did on the flop. You can't expect to win this hand with a J or 9 very often and there arnt many scare cards comming for you to bluff off of and you only got good value, not great value after you hit. Also, even though you hit, you can be sure he doesnt have a QTdd or KTdd etc...

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

mxiu

06-08-2006, 07:18 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Okay, I guess I'll reply now. When I was min-raised on the flop, I put him on a combo draw. Something along the lines of 34d... two low diamonds with some ugly straight draw. When I re-raised, I was sure he'd put me on a set, and I figured he'd fold on the spot, or he'd call, trying to break my set. Regardless of what turned, if it were a brick, he'd still put me on a set, and I'm sure he doesn't put any more money in. If the board pairs, he definitely folds. If it came a diamond, I'm check/calling his bet to make it seem like I got stubborn and won't let go of my set. When the river comes, a paired board would be fine, another diamond doesn't bother me, a brick scoops me a nice pot.

When I bet the river he said "Set of 5's no good kid", and he called.

Villain flipped 73d, and I scoop.

Am I working too hard? Or did I just have an unusual read in this case?

magneticskull

06-08-2006, 08:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: NYC

Posts: 138

I'm quite surprised at the result.
Winning it is nice...
But the read you gave us wasn't your real read was it?

If your definition of "quite aware" and "decent player" include limping 34d (your "read") and then calling down a made flush after a check/call, bet, then you might want to re-evaluate that.

And if the opponent called you down with what he had, then guess what? He didn't think YOU were a weak-tight nit either. Weak tight only calls with best hand, right? So are you a weak tight nit, or do you just think you are pretending to look like one?

So maybe your "self table image" meter also could use a checkup?
Or maybe you are psychic and will be able to repeat this type of play profitably over ten thousand hands.

tell your friends...
"J9 suited rules... I EXTRACTED THE HECK OUT OF THIS REALLY GREAT PLAYER... "

Bah, I know nothing. And my sarcasm guarantees you will ignore me, thus enabling you to swim happily away...
(At the USDA-APHIS , they call this technique "Catch and Release")

There is no such thing as free checking...

a500lbgorilla

06-08-2006, 10:21 PM

#12 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

well in this case you had a great read and i am jealous of your abilities. good work.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Renton

06-08-2006, 11:17 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

i think you need to bet the turn

there is no reason for you to think he has the flush, and there is no reason for him to think you have the flush.

If he has a legitimate hand, then he's not folding to a turn bet. He might even raise.

Bet/3betting the flop and then checking the turn is suspect IMO.

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