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Kiriath
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10-23-2005, 02:02 AM
Post subject: Deep stack sets, how do u play em ?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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I had a rather interesting hand today.
the game is .5/1, 9 handed NL.
im utg with 88, I got a 500 stack
I limp a few more limpers and BB makes it 10 to go.
Heres the deal, bb is a 230 stack, so I got him covered, and since hes bet is "only" 10, I figure I got enough implied odds for calling the remaining 9. My read on him is that he is a solid aggressive player.
Okay I call, flop comes K83 rainbow. Pot is 25 and BB makes bets 10.
now what ???
I decided to do the normal set routine, and called hes flop bet with the intention of reraising the turn.
turn is 5 and he bets 10 again. The pot is 45 excl hes bet, so how much to reraise ?? if I make it 30+ im pretty sure he will fold, so I just minreraise to 20.
He calls, and turn is another 5,
here he checks and pot is 85. How much do I bet ? Anything above 50 SCREAMS set in my oppinion, in wich case he prolly fold since he is a solid player. I make it 40 and he calls.
Now, heres my problem. I called 10 preflop, where he was a 85% favorite, then after I hit my 1/8 miracle. I only manage to extract 70 outta him. This sounds like bad business in the long run to me, so should I have just folded preflop or what ???
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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i think if you know he is a solid player who will not pay you off as much when you hit a set then you must be prepared to call much less for the draw to a set.
You take the odds of hitting the set and compare them to how big you expect the end pot to be (if you hit) to work out how much you are prepared to call.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i don't see what this has to do with deep stacks.
i personally am raising the flop to say 25. that looks a lot more like you caught a king too or are trying to push him off a continuation bet. after that, it should be easy to get say 30 on the turn (75 pot) and 50 on the river (135 pot)
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greedo017
i don't see what this has to do with deep stacks.
i personally am raising the flop to say 25. that looks a lot more like you caught a king too or are trying to push him off a continuation bet. after that, it should be easy to get say 30 on the turn (75 pot) and 50 on the river (135 pot)
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if he didnt have more than 100 I wouldnt have called 10 in the first place. But figuring he had 230 I though I had implied odds.
Now besides that, The problem with reraising on the flop is that I limped called preflop, so he knows I got a pair. I cant represent AK at this time. If I had raised preflop I woulda done that.
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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I think my conclusion is to just fold it preflop next time vs solid players, or make a raise instead of limping..
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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In this particular hand you didn't take much but what about next time when he raises with AA or AK, its a whole different story and maybe that time you will take his whole stack.
You cant decide that 'implied odds' is bullshit on the basis of 1 hand.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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sorry, guess i was just getting nitpicky b/c implied odds are separate from deep stacks.
i still would call this though. obviously you don't always make your odds with your sets. but more often than not you would. if he bet the pot on the flop with aces and pushes the turn we're not having this conversation.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greedo017
sorry, guess i was just getting nitpicky b/c implied odds are separate from deep stacks.
i still would call this though. obviously you don't always make your odds with your sets. but more often than not you would. if he bet the pot on the flop with aces and pushes the turn we're not having this conversation.
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of couse not.
but point is that unless hes a moron that wont happen. Looking at my postflop play its OBVIOUS that I have a pp, if I call any decent bet on a K high flop with no draws, its OBVIOUS that I hit the set... Thats the problem, vs a good player I wont get payd off.
But if I had raised preflop to 3, then called a maybe 15 bet, then I coulda reraised on the flop repping the king. Ill do that next time in a deepstack game.
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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oh and im not sure if I already made this clear, but he had AA.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i still say raise the flop and he won't buy it, even good players get tripped up sometimes. it is likely you have a pocket pair, not obvious, and he will put in money. the flop is the place to make a good player think you flopped a weak hand and get him more committed than he wants to be. you could've gotten more out of this guy, and i'd rather bet too much and have him fold than allow him to get out of the hand so cheaply I don't make my odds.
however, if you are up against someone who you feel won't pay you off even with aces, then i say go ahead and fold, i just don't really think i'd run into that situation very much.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Even solid players have trouble putting you on 88 or 33. It seems obvious to you because you have one. You could have AK, KQ, QQ,JJ,TT and still bet the way you bet - in theory. He beats all these. The only hands that scare him are KK (which would have most likely reraised preflop), 88, or 33.
Push on the river. If you know this guy will fold to a reasonable raise, then making a fish move may get a call from him. He may think you are trying to buy it. AA would have trouble laying it down.
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
Even solid players have trouble putting you on 88 or 33. It seems obvious to you because you have one. You could have AK, KQ, QQ,JJ,TT and still bet the way you bet - in theory. He beats all these. The only hands that scare him are KK (which would have most likely reraised preflop), 88, or 33.
Push on the river. If you know this guy will fold to a reasonable raise, then making a fish move may get a call from him. He may think you are trying to buy it. AA would have trouble laying it down.
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Problem with that is that he was a good player, he knows I raise good hands preflop and limp low pairs/suitet cons.
he knows I aint got AK KK QQ or JJ.
well, I got the answers I needed thanks, and now let this thread die! =D
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