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deal with high 3 bet fish...

  
 
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wordtothewise
Old 09-27-2009, 09:35 AM     Post subject: deal with high 3 bet fish... #1 (permalink)  
Two Pair

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wordtothewise
I have seen this 57/17/2.0 3 bet 18 percent build a stack from regs calling his min 3 bets oop and getting into a world of hurt on turn and rivers with TPTK. His 3 bet range is so vastly wide. I feel like my choices are to fold or 4 bet? I am not too concerned if I have to pitch this hand to a 5 bet. Thoughts?


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 Players


Stacks:
CO ($29.05)
BTN ($31.35)
Hero ($51.60)
BB ($206.80)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $5

Flop: ($16, 2 players)
Hero ($43.6)?
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jessyj
Old 09-27-2009, 09:40 AM #2 (permalink)  
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You don't have to fold to his 3b when he makes it so small so your decision here should be call/4bet. Once you 4bet and see this flop I like just betting and getting it in. If he calls I'm not sure what to do but I likely push and pray.
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wordtothewise
Old 09-27-2009, 09:43 AM #3 (permalink)  
Two Pair

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wordtothewise
Jessy, that is the deal. I am going to call sure and play this shit hand oop to a wide range aggressive player. I am not sure I want to stack when an ace hits etc. So, this is why I felt a call was 3rd in line.
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wordtothewise
Old 09-27-2009, 09:46 AM #4 (permalink)  
Two Pair

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Posts: 35
wordtothewise
Stacks:
CO ($29.05)
BTN ($31.35)
Hero ($51.60)
BB ($206.80)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $5

Flop: ($16, 2 players)
Hero bets $9, BB raises to $22, $13 to Hero ($34.6)?

WTF is he saying he has 3x. I believe would play a boat trappy. So, I felt even vs. a pair we have at least 40 percent equity.
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jessyj
Old 09-27-2009, 10:01 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Obvious ship with likely 12 outs(and bdsd) and might even be dominating worse draws.
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wordtothewise
Old 09-27-2009, 10:09 AM #6 (permalink)  
Two Pair

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wordtothewise
Well it will be nice to crush 50nl one day. The hands posted have been on track thus far. So, I hope my time is coming. Thanks Jessy
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-27-2009, 06:37 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 If you want to crush 50nl stop bloating the pot OOP with marginal hands. I don't like the 4bet pre.

After that you can change seats.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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daven
Old 09-27-2009, 07:49 PM #8 (permalink)  
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daven will become famous soon enough
 flop seems standard, pre-flop doesn't
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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badgers
Old 09-27-2009, 09:58 PM #9 (permalink)  
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This is a bit of unorthodox advice but does anyone think limp/calling or even just folding preflop are options against this villain?
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-27-2009, 10:05 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
This is a bit of unorthodox advice but does anyone think limp/calling or even just folding preflop are options against this villain?
I actually thought about this but didn't mention it.

Like we basically know we're getting 3bet and we'd rather not , yet we have a hand that has way too much potential vs this guy to possibly just fold pre, so if we limp/call his pfr we keep the pot under control while OOP and when we pick up a decent draw or Ax we can act accordingly as he's likely to spew madly postflop as the pfr given his obvious tendency to put the last raise in.

The shitty part about it is well, we're limp/calling a raise oop and basically playing fit/fold on the flop :/
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

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http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:27 PM #11 (permalink)  
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4b pre is aweful
I'd rather limp/call pre and c/c this board
failing that, bet/call pre and c/c this board
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Deanglow
Old 09-27-2009, 10:30 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 4betting pre isn't "awful" although I think calling is a lot better. When you get to this flop bet/get it in
 
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wordtothewise
Old 09-28-2009, 03:58 AM #13 (permalink)  
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wordtothewise
Can you please explain why a 4 bet is awful? I am 4 betting with hand I could care less about folding to a 5bet. Also, it keeps me from playing a passive limp call oop vs. a very loose aggressive player.
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wordtothewise
Old 09-28-2009, 04:00 AM #14 (permalink)  
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wordtothewise
Babgers: I don't mind a fold preflop but the table went down to 4 handed. What would be the min raise range here A9+? Personally I would rather fold then limp here.
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wordtothewise
Old 09-28-2009, 04:04 AM #15 (permalink)  
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wordtothewise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
If you want to crush 50nl stop bloating the pot OOP with marginal hands. I don't like the 4bet pre.

After that you can change seats.
Is this a serious statement? This is one line that I took vs. 1 type of player. I am not 4 betting liberally just to bloat pots. I had a specific reason and read vs. a specific player type.
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-28-2009, 04:37 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 Yes I'm dead serious.

This is just from my experience, but these crazy guys aren't folding to 4bets too often - if they 3bet you pre they want to play their hand. Your intention was to bluff right? The guy is really aggro and isn't going to let us bluff him off hands - give him rope.

If we're seriously considering open-folding A6s 4 handed, blind versus blind, then we should not be sitting at this table.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Ltrain
Old 09-28-2009, 07:54 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtothewise
Can you please explain why a 4 bet is awful? I am 4 betting with hand I could care less about folding to a 5bet. Also, it keeps me from playing a passive limp call oop vs. a very loose aggressive player.
Because from your description, this player has a lot of gambool in him, your 4 bet will likely be called by most of his range and you still don't know where you are in the hand versus his wide pf calling range and you are oop but now with more money in the pot. What are you expecting to learn about his range from your 4 bet that you couldn't determine from calling his 3 bet and playing the flop?
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:25 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtothewise
Can you please explain why a 4 bet is awful?
because he's rarely folding and on average his hand is better than yours
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