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pantherhound

10-20-2005, 02:24 PM Post subject: Criticism please.

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Love me for a season

Posts: 492

Looking back, this may have been one of the worst calls I have ever made. I've been running absolutely terrible recently and for some reason hoped to checkraise the flop here against a new foe. my turn play is just chaos. I HAVE to lead out on the flop here against a flat caller right? there is a possible straight draw out there but how worried should I be against a single opponent?

------HAND 5------
Game #1103980503: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2005/10/20 - 15:13:15 (UK)
Table "Steelton" Seat 1 is the button.
Seat 1: Kenny7 ($128 in chips)
Seat 2: Fred29113 ($95 in chips)
Seat 3: Smiffy44 ($102 in chips)
Seat 5: ariamvp ($79 in chips)
Seat 6: helenking ($60 in chips)
Seat 7: Ross15024 ($72.37 in chips)
Seat 8: Braley ($55.69 in chips)
Seat 9: e46lsb ($85.75 in chips)
Seat 10: Montyh ($105.25 in chips)
Fred29113: posts small blind $0.50
Smiffy44: posts big blind $1
helenking: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Smiffy44 [Kd Kh]
ariamvp: calls $1
helenking: checks
Ross15024: folds
Braley: calls $1
e46lsb: folds
Montyh: folds
Kenny7: folds
Fred29113: calls $0.50
Smiffy44: raises to $7
ariamvp: folds
helenking: calls $6
Braley: folds
Fred29113: folds
----- FLOP ----- [6h Jd Ts]
Smiffy44: checks
helenking: checks
----- TURN ----- [6h Jd Ts][9s]
Smiffy44: bets $9
helenking: raises to $53 and is all-in
Smiffy44: calls $44
----- RIVER ----- [6h Jd Ts 9s][Jh]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
helenking: shows [7c 8d] (A Straight, Jack high)
Smiffy44: shows [Kd Kh] (Two Pairs, Kings and Jacks, Ten high)
helenking collected $120 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $123 Main pot $120 Rake $3
Board [6h Jd Ts 9s Jh]
Seat 1: Kenny7 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Fred29113 (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Smiffy44 (big blind) lost
Seat 5: ariamvp folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: helenking (big blind) showed [7c 8d] and won ($120) with A Straight, Jack high
Seat 7: Ross15024 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Braley folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: e46lsb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Montyh folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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PokerPatNEU

10-20-2005, 02:46 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Do you usually continue on flops whether you hit or miss? A lot of people get into the mentality of "ok i raised pre flop and missed, now i'll continue and take down the pot" and then when they hit "ok i raised pre flop and hit, now i'll check raise" and it gets predictable. I continue almost every time without a specific reason not to. If villain is an aggressive donkey i will check and let him try and bluff so i can c/r (with overpairs, sets, etc). If the flop is super scary and i missed (if i raise pre flop with QQ and get 3 callers and flop has an A and K, i will not continue there) etc. Continue on non-scary flops (almost) every time you hit to protect your continuation bets fold equity for the times you miss.

The turn bet is fine, and then his raise looks super fishy. I would not put him on the strait here, because I don't see why he would over bet it so much. Unless I respected my opponents ability to put me on an over pair and predict that i will pay him off, I probably make this call thinking it is a bluff. A lot of people might even push all in here holding a J and thinking that you have missed the board and are now trying to buy the pot. I'm sure this isn't the worst call you've ever made, given a good read i'm sure a lot of players could make this call with confidence and see AJ, QJ, A9, AQ of spades, or 88, etc, a lot of the time.

outphase

10-20-2005, 03:07 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

lack of flop bet and calling the turn overbet are two mistakes i see in the hand.

You raised strong preflop, why is there no flop bet? Your planned check raise happens less often than you might think. Many players tend not to bet into the strong preflop raiser unless they can beat some good holdings. You might have been able to drive out the lone gutshot, but judging by the preflop call, i doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

pantherhound

10-20-2005, 04:35 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Love me for a season

Posts: 492

Quote:

Originally Posted by outphase

You might have been able to drive out the lone gutshot, but judging by the preflop call, i doubt it.

yeah, i've been thinking about this point. I had no read because it was his/her first hand at the table, but the crucial factor was the lagginess/lappiness. such a careless call could well have translated to a shot at the flop into the original raiser, but looking back the checkraise was a terrible decision because of the range of hands villain could have on the flop and thus I clearly need some kind of read on the flop.

Aces

10-20-2005, 05:46 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Posts: 832

Flop is straight coordinated - bet the flop and take it down.

Easy fold on the turn - surely he hit trips or a straight.

Fnord

10-20-2005, 06:01 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Check/raising after flat telling the table you have AA/KK is a stupid play in Limit. In NL it's taking money and setting it on fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

pantherhound

10-20-2005, 08:44 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Love me for a season

Posts: 492

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Check/raising after flat telling the table you have AA/KK is a stupid play in Limit. In NL it's taking money and setting it on fire.

lol, I expected something along these lines when I saw you'd replied.

It's good, I need an asskicking so I won't do it again. These are the basic plays which determine a winning or losing day. Luckily I haven't tilted.

BTW Pat, interesting take on my call and that you would make the call. yes I usually bet out but since I started using the checkraise I have occasionally overused it and applied it to the wrong situations, like this one.

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