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Jager
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10-23-2006, 09:41 PM
Post subject: Crazy call????
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Would anybody else here have made this call?
Villain is 21/15.7/4.9 over 400 hands
He was on every table I was on at the time, it is the first time I had seen him. He was pushing everyone off any pot he was in including me a couple of times.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP2 ($200)
MP3 ($325.20)
Hero ($225.35)
Button ($124)
SB ($258.35)
BB ($203.80)
UTG ($151.45)
UTG+1 ($245.45)
MP1 ($238.80)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , A. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 raises to $8, Hero calls $8, 3 folds, MP2 folds.
Flop: ($21) 3, A , T (2 players)
MP3 bets $10, Hero raises to $20, MP3 calls $10.
Turn: ($61) 7 (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $40, MP3 raises to $297.2, Hero calls $157.35 (All-In).
River: ($555.55) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: $555.55
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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First of all, I absolutely hate the flop minraise, pop it up to $40 here. Bet $70 on turn.
As played I will call that all-in though.
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She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Twice on Friday.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Given the read caaaaall
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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reraise preflop and raise more on the flop
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ApocalypsPLZ
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Calling pf is fine. Raise to at least 30 on flop, then bet ~60 on turn. Calling the all-in is fine.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I've been trying the flop min raise in pos as an experiement. I would normally raise 3x, but lately I haven't been getting any action on my sets. I try to play them both the same in pos, I would have normally raised to $30 on flop.
Any guess as to villains hand?
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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ApocalypsPLZ
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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AT? AQ?
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El_duderino
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Between 100NL and 200NL
Posts: 11
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An AK who put you on a flush draw/straight draw with 2 broadway cards?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I've been trying the flop min raise in pos as an experiement. I would normally raise 3x, but lately I haven't been getting any action on my sets. I try to play them both the same in pos, I would have normally raised to $30 on flop.
Any guess as to villains hand?
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raising minimum with a big hand is always a terrible play unless its the river, or unless you have them drawing completely dead
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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75 spades
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
raising minimum with a big hand is always a terrible play unless its the river, or unless you have them drawing completely dead
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Although not standard I'd say it's not that bad here because hero is also drawing.
And reraising this preflop is bad though imo, because he'll push you off your hand if you miss.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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um no, he'll push you off the hand EVERYTIME you miss if you just call.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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That's the whole point. There's a good chance you'll get pushed off your hand, so why would you inflate the pot? See if you hit, then let him hang himself (like happened here).
Now if you had a higher pp, that'd be a different story.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Exhibit A: He raises and you cold call with AQ. Flop J78, he bets you fold and lose.
Exhibit B: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He folds and you win.
Exhibit C: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He flat calls and flop J78. He checks, you bet, he folds, you win.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
um no, he'll push you off the hand EVERYTIME you miss if you just call.
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I disagree, however given his stats and such calling the flop looking for a weak turn bet or check and expecting to get paid off when you flush is still a pretty bad line against this guy.
Raise this hard and be happy to get it all-in. You got a great hand, gamble here for lots of money.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Exhibit A: He raises and you cold call with AQ. Flop J78, he bets you fold and lose.
Exhibit B: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He folds and you win.
Exhibit C: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He flat calls and flop J78. He checks, you bet, he folds, you win.
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B: He folds and you lose out on taking his stack
C: he doesn't check/fold but pushes you off a bigger pot
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Exhibit A: He raises and you cold call with AQ. Flop J78, he bets you fold and lose.
Exhibit B: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He folds and you win.
Exhibit C: He raises and you threebet with AQ. He flat calls and flop J78. He checks, you bet, he folds, you win.
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B: He folds and you lose out on taking his stack
C: he doesn't check/fold but pushes you off a bigger pot |
i concur with renton
being in position, hero should generally look to inflate the pot and take the initiative by reraising. flat calling is okay, but shows an unhealthy unwillingness to gambool
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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vegascoop
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
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Good thought.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Raise this hard and be happy to get it all-in. You got a great hand, gamble here for lots of money.
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I agree the hand is great on the flop but not on the turn. Getting checkraised here sucks.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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raise bigger on flop or dont raise at all
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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i like the pf call in position. but to back that up, you have to reraise to $35-40.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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AQo we fold right?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I can't really say I like the preflop call although I guess there's nothing really wrong with it. I'd rather just 3-bet.. you're ahead of this guy's range and you have position.
On the flop.. I can't say I like the 1/4 pot raise. I'd probably just pretend that I had 33 here and bomb the hell out of it although that's certainly not the only play you could make.
edit: as played, easiest call ever on the turn. Someone asked if we'd fold AQo here which is a perfectly ok question, but I suspect that person was going to follow up with, 'well we'd fold AQo and we don't have pot odds for our flush draw', but that's assuming that since we'd fold AQo here that AQ is never good, which is obviously an incorrect assumption.
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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I tend to reraise AQ suited or not against players that I think are getting out of line like this guy, and am much more likely to do it in position as in this hand.
If he wants to play a big pot on this board and I have TPGK and nut flush draw I got no problem with that!
I also agree that minreraising with sets to try to get them paid off is not the way to go. Better just to show down some silly shit every once in a while and piss folks off enough to pay off those sets...easier said than done of course!
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