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Couple Hand Histories... kicker trouble or just bad luck?

  
 
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purespeed
Old 02-12-2006, 07:39 PM     Post subject: Couple Hand Histories... kicker trouble or just bad luck? #1 (permalink)  

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purespeed
Hand #1

Game # 247506555 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0.50/1 - Table "Aguilas"
Game ended 2006-02-12 18:04:45 GMT+01:00

Players:
ricba640 (EUR 93.50 in seat 1)
SwedssonJr (EUR 14.43 in seat 2)
TBlumDK (EUR 359.50 in seat 3)
flintbro (EUR 50.26 in seat 4)
Villain1 (EUR 35.00 in seat 5)
Hero (EUR 100.00 in seat 6)

Dealer: TBlumDK
Small Blind: flintbro (0.50)
Big Blind: Villain1 (1.00)
Blind out of turn: Hero (1.00)

Hero was dealt: Kd - Th

Hero Check
ricba640 Fold
SwedssonJr Fold
TBlumDK Fold
flintbro Raise (1.50)
Villain1 Call (1.00)
Hero Call (1.00)

Flop 4c - Kc - Ks

flintbro Check
Villain Check
Hero Bet (3.00)
flintbro Fold
Villain Call (3.00)

Turn 4c - Kc - Ks - 8d

Villain Check
Hero Bet (10.00)
Villain Call (10.00)

River 4c - Kc - Ks - 8d - 7d

Villain Bet (8.25)
Hero Raise (22.00)
Villain All-In (11.75)
Hero Payback (2.00)

Hero shows: Kd - Th (three of a kind, kings)
Villain shows: Kh - Qc (three of a kind, kings, with queen as kicker)

Villain wins: EUR 69.00 (with three of a kind, kings, with queen as kicker)
Rake: EUR 1.40

Comments:

Looking back, I think raising the river was a bad move on my part. I thought his bet was a blocking bet, or even a stupid bluff because he didn't believe I had a K, but I guess the average player would bet the river if they have trips. Up until the river I put him on a flush draw.

==============================

Hand #2

Game # 247622969 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,50/1,00 - Table "Aguilas"
Game ended 2006-02-12 20:40:37 GMT+01:00

Players:
donkey098 (EUR 117,05 in seat 1)
Chrille123 (EUR 100,20 in seat 3)
Drummer44 (EUR 111,05 in seat 4)
Villain (EUR 28,75 in seat 5)
Hero (EUR 248,65 in seat 6)

Dealer: Villain
Small Blind: Hero (0,50)
Big Blind: donkey098 (1,00)

Hero was dealt: Qh - Ad

Chrille123 Call (1,00)
Drummer44 Fold
Villain Raise (2,00)
Hero Raise (4,00)
donkey098 Fold
Chrille123 Call (3,50)
Villain Call (2,50)

Flop Ah - 5h - 6h

Hero Bet (7,25)
Chrille123 Fold
Villain Call (7,25)

Turn Ah - 5h - 6h - 2s

Hero Bet (10,00)
Villain Call (10,00)

River Ah - 5h - 6h - 2s - 4s

Hero Bet (8,00)
Villain All-In (7,00)
Hero Payback (1,00)

Hero shows: Qh - Ad (a pair of aces)
Villain shows: As - Kh (a pair of aces, with king as kicker)

Villain wins: EUR 61,00 (with a pair of aces, with king as kicker)
Rake: EUR 2,00

Comments:

In the hand right before this one, villain had called a moderate pf raise from SB w/ K9, and went to the showdown to lose to KQ. Villain had bet both flop and river, and seemed to think he had the best hand. For this hand, when he min-raised pf, I put him on Ax or even Kx, where x is a moderate kicker. In the case that he had Ax, I dominate his hand, and so my plan was to re-raise to make it HU. Given my observations that Villain is likely to hold 2nd best hands / be dominated, was my thinking correct?

==============================

How would you guys play these hands differently? Thanks.
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Pelion
Old 02-12-2006, 07:48 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Do many people play K9 in that game? I think most people with trips probably have you beat there. Having said that I still think you should call on the end but dont raise it. If its a bluff then he wont call a raise anyway. I dont think a blocking bet is likely because anyone who is playing less than K9 probably doesnt understand kickers anyway.



I also fold preflop.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 02-12-2006, 08:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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1: Tough. I would have expected a r/r on the turn from him. I would have called the river, not r/r. At these levels, people are typically reasonable when 2 K's are on the board.

2: Be very careful r/r AQo, unless their raising standards are demonstrably less than most. Those flop and turn calls are very read dependent, but on balance, worrisome to me. Without a good read, I would think it's possible you are beat, or his is drawing to the nuts. Since you r/r, don't have position, and put money in there, it's tougher to get away. I actually might check/call the flop and then check/raise the turn if he shows weakness.
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bdawg56kg
Old 02-12-2006, 10:44 PM #4 (permalink)  
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First hand I would check the turn. What do you think he calls your flop bet with? On the river, call a bet, raise a weak bet, and bet if checked to. This is where position comes in handy.

Second hand, if you're going to rerasie preflop, then raise more. Otherwise just call. Against that shorty with less than 30BB's, I play it exactly the same.
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Pelion
Old 02-13-2006, 12:00 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
First hand I would check the turn. What do you think he calls your flop bet with? On the river, call a bet, raise a weak bet, and bet if checked to. This is where position comes in handy.

Second hand, if you're going to rerasie preflop, then raise more. Otherwise just call. Against that shorty with less than 30BB's, I play it exactly the same.
Why would you raise a weak bet? A weak bet is either a very small value bet because youve shown weakness or a pathetic bluff IMO. You dont want to be raising either of these unless you think he plays weaker kings than K9. More importantly i really dont want to be reraised here.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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SonOfAkira
Old 02-13-2006, 12:38 AM #6 (permalink)  
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There should be a sticky, i've talked about it in a couple different threads, about the difference between sets, how holding a pocket pair and making the set is so much stronger than making a set by the board pairing up.
Still, I see myself, given the reads et al, playing these hands the same way, unfortunately.
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bdawg56kg
Old 02-13-2006, 12:59 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Why would you raise a weak bet? A weak bet is either a very small value bet because youve shown weakness or a pathetic bluff IMO. You dont want to be raising either of these unless you think he plays weaker kings than K9. More importantly i really dont want to be reraised here.
99-JJ will call the flop bet and probably bet the river for value. Also hero's range for betting this flop has to be wider than trips or boat. So if hero checks the turn and villian bets out $4 on the river, I think it's a +EV play to raise it up to 10-12. This is a pretty damn good flop for KT, so you shouldn't be afraid to show some strength, maybe not on every street, but at least a little. This is read dependent of course, and also dependent on hero's image.
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WhooFleuryScores
Old 02-13-2006, 03:07 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I think being that you got dealt the hand the way you did you just have to call the river.You pretty much got outplayed by villain as he trapped you Teddy KGB style(with you unfortunately reraising;luckily it wasn't for $33,000 more).

Trips with lower than Queen Kicker are always a problem.I had trips Fri night with JTs Trip Tens guess what villain had yup QTo.
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