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martindcx1e
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10-26-2006, 04:55 PM
Post subject: Confusing QQ Hand
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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I was really confused by villain's line in this hand. I doubted very seriously that he held a hand with an 8 in it. The river was either a really dumb bluff, a really weird set line, or a really weird AA/KK line. What do you do on the river? No reads on this guy, but FWIW WPEX is a rock garden.
25NL WPEX
Hero is UTG+1 ($24)
Villain is MP1 ($25)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to Hero: [:Qh:, :Qd:]
Player 9: Call ($0.25)
Hero: Raise ($1.25)
Player 1: Fold
Villain: Call ($1.25)
Player 5: Fold
Player 6: Fold
Player 7: Fold
Player 8: Fold
Player 9: Call ($1)
** Dealing Flop **   
Player 9: Check ($0)
Hero: Bet ($2.50)
Villain: Call ($2.50)
Player 9: Fold
** Dealing Turn ** 
Hero: Bet ($5)
Villain: Call ($5)
** Dealing River ** 
Hero: Bet ($7)
Villain: Raise ($16.85)
Hero: ?
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I think he has T8, but I still might call this. It looks like he is drawing, then smooth calling turn cause the pot is large enough for him to push river and get a call. Hes been watching too much TV.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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For some reason I'm seeing PP88 here. If he had position and an open ended draw, I might expect some kind of raise on the flop or turn, although a lot of players certainly don't do that.
For me this plays exactly like someone calling down w/ middle PP knowing that they shouldn't and then trying to get some value when they get lucky.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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By the way, despite that I'm definitely calling here, w/out adding it up I think your getting about 3 to 1 on your money. With absolutely no read thats an instacall on the river for me w/ overpair.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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I doubted very seriously that he held a hand with an 8 in it.
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If the only hand that beat you was an 8 I'd call but it isn't so I fold. I think JT is pretty likely here and more likely than an 8 unless it's 8T/98.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Quote:
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I doubted very seriously that he held a hand with an 8 in it.
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If the only hand that beat you was an 8 I'd call but it isn't so I fold. I think JT is pretty likely here and more likely than an 8 unless it's 8T/98. |
Yes, I did forget about JT. I called btw. I'll give results after a few more ppl give input.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i check river, not much value in betting. i fold to the push too.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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villain showed AA
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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So he was slowplaying/smooth calling.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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why would anyone bet/call this river? ridiculous against any semi-sane opponent
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
villain showed AA
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add to buddy list, pwn with small pair setting up.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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why would anyone bet/call this river? ridiculous against any semi-sane opponent
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i do think the call was wrong. why no bet though? are you calling any bets if you check?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Don't bet hands that only 1 or 2 hands you are beating are calling, yeah you probably have to check/fold that river.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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I wanted to add that alot of speculative hands that may peel one on the flop improved to pair + draw on the turn and thus didnt feel like folding. The river completes almost any hand hand that would have called the flop that didn't have you beat anyways so check/folding doesn't seem that bad on the river.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
villain showed AA
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I see backwards AA every now and then.
The river is an easy check/call or bet/fold against a passive opponent.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
villain showed AA
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I see backwards AA every now and then.
The river is an easy check/call or bet/fold against a passive opponent. |
So you don't think a bet on the river is a big No-No here?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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I wouldn't have checked the river, I had him on JT, or J8 as well. What about checking the turn instead to see if he is serious about the hand or not. If it is an overpair or a set, At $25NL they get a little ansy about not getting money in on the turn, so a raise here will tell you more. He'll re raise push on the turn as fast as he does on the river because your not moving fast enough. The problem with $25NL is Overpairs are played like monsters to some of these guys.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
I wouldn't have checked the river, I had him on JT, or J8 as well. What about checking the turn instead to see if he is serious about the hand or not. If it is an overpair or a set, At $25NL they get a little ansy about not getting money in on the turn, so a reeraise here will tell you more. He'll push a reraise on the turn as fast as he does on the river because your not moving fast enough. The problem with $25NL is Overpairs are played like monsters to some of these guys.
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I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. You say to check the turn and you are saying I'm somehow supposed to re-raise him? That doesn't make sense since there's no way for him to raise me in the first place.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Sorry meant raises not reraises. oops. changed it
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Sorry meant raises not reraises. oops. changed it
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ok so you like a c/r then on the turn?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Yes, with the pre flop call, flop call we have no idea of his hand. Is it a draw, overpair or set. With full stacks , if I'm villian, I call both these preflop and flop bets with 8 T, Q T, 9 9, 3 3 or an overpair . But I raise your turn bet to get money in before the river if I have the set. He's unsure until the weak river bet what you have. Possibly putting you on J J or 9 9 or overpair. Looks like he's in Pot control mode incase you have the set and you never pushed him. What do you think he has put you on. What line are you representing.
Sorry if I'm off here. These are the things I'm trying to work on for myself.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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checking the turn here is bad. if you check and he bets and you raise you're pricing yourself into calling anyways. You're better off bet/folding or bet/calling the turn instead of c/r'ing unless you are sure he's betting with weaker hands.
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But I raise your turn bet to get money in before the river if I have the set.
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Stop using this line as a standard, it makes your hand transparant.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
checking the turn here is bad. if you check and he bets and you raise you're pricing yourself into calling anyways.
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agreed.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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I block bet river and fold to a push or just check call a small bet
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
I block bet river and fold to a push or just check call a small bet
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I got step 1 right but still called the push 
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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