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aytopper
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03-03-2007, 01:10 PM
Post subject: Common problem - villian leading out
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
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This seems to happen a lot and I'm never sure what to do. Villian just got moved to the table recently so I have no info on him. What do you do?
Seat 1: Hero (6,455)
Seat 5: Villian (3,770)
small blind of 120
big blind of 240
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jc Kh]
3 fold
Hero raises to 720
1 folds
Villian calls 600
1 folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 9c Qc]
Villian bets 240
Hero ?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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raise if he leads lots.
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aytopper
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
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Basically the first hand I saw from this guy. Am I forced to give credit to the guy if I know nothing about him?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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call
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
call
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is this specific to this hand or in general?
I generally have a horrible table image which means im getting called light raising on the flop anyway, not forgetting that we want to get good value for AQ here as well as buy free cards for 2 clubs, raise for value with bigger pps/sets etc.
The only reason i say this is that anyone who sens a second barrel out on the turn normally doesnt fold to a turn raise anymore, or maybe thats just the games im playing in.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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in the specific hand
KJ has pretty good equity vs his range here, he checksfolds the turn a lot, sometimes he has a good hand and we catch yahtzee on the turn.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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"Hi, I have a flush draw and I think you're dumb enough to be confused by my min donk bet that you won't raise me."
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
"Hi, I have a flush draw and I think you're dumb enough to be confused by my min donk bet that you won't raise me, and even though im trying to price myself in, im still calling any raise."
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Your call: "Hi, I clearly have nothing, so check the turn if you want to me to steal it, or lead the turn to take the inflated pot."
After he leads turn: "Damn."
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
Your call: "Hi, I clearly have nothing, "
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not true, you'd smoothcall top pair every time as well
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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he check calls turn meaning we need to fire a river rocket if he misses and hope he doesnt like the pair he sucks out on river.
Raise the flop bomb the turn and you price him out. Play his cards and not your own considering how you would play tp/set/two pair/nut flush draw here.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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This is a tourney, right? Need a little more info, really. If you are near the bubble, you probably have a lot of folding equity, so I'd be more inclined to raise the flop. If it's in the rebuy period of a R+A tourney, you're getting called by all sorts of crap, and raising the flop has little value.
In general, a weak lead like this is either 1) a marginal hand looking either to pick the pot up cheap (min bet for 1/7 pot lol) or to find a reason to fold or 2) a monster hoping to induce a big raise
The stack sizes are a little awkward, since you'll both be pot committed if he calls a pot sized raise on the flop. You might raise to, say 800 or so just to see if he wants to continue in the hand. He'll probably fold some hands that beat you (66-88 esp), and if he calls you can still make a 2/3 pot bluff on the turn if he checks. OTOH, most of the hands you would probably fold aren't likely to improve on the turn, and will probably check/fold. If a club hits you have an interesting decision if checked to.
I'm a little meh on getting it AI on the flop. It's a big overbet. You have decent equity against his range, but against the hands that will call (even flush draws, esp A-high) your equity won't be so great.
I think I like a call in this situation given stack sizes, your hand, and the board texture.
In general, however, I prefer punishing these weak min bets. With no specific reads, bigger stacks, and a dry board, I would put in a 3/4 pot raise against a flop minbet or other weak lead very often (like 90% against most opponents), almost regardless of my holding.
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Poker is freedom
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Zidane18
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 193
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Quote:
In general, however, I prefer punishing these weak min bets. With no specific reads, bigger stacks, and a dry board, I would put in a 3/4 pot raise against a flop minbet or other weak lead very often (like 90% against most opponents), almost regardless of my holding.
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gr8 advice. ne1 who doesnt follow this how no clue on how 2 win tournaments by punishing weakness.
In this situation what is there to consider? he min bets into a raised pot. i rr the flop and push the turn. power poker. dont call as someone said, that is also weak. although i do concede the stack sizes are a little awkward here. but not awkard enuff not to raise
ALMOST ALL THE TIME A SMALL LEAD OUT BET INTO PRE FLOP RAISOR SHOWS WEAKNESS.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zidane18
In this situation what is there to consider?
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This may be a situation where a delayed bluff is better because you might get called by a draw that is, in reality, a better hand. Bloating the pot on the flop might kill your turn fold equity.
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Poker is freedom
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