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Combatting the nits

  
 
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badgers
Old 03-29-2008, 10:21 PM     Post subject: Combatting the nits #1 (permalink)  
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Because I'm sad I just went through my PT database (which is extremely small, only 8k or so hands due to HD failiure etc) noting up all players i had over 150 hands on. I have been frankly stunned by the results. NOBODY BETS. I think I may have found my biggest leak - pot control. I've been focussing too much on thin vetting cos ISF and Gabe etc. are always on about that and it's "sick" in places. Fuck it I'm just a mediocre non-thinking tag and I should stop trying to apply concepts I don't fully understand to players who are completely different. I've been doing the betting for them in the thinner spots by thinking their c/cing range is far weaker than it really is.

I need to control the pot waayy better vs. the nits and apply b/c/b more because they'll hate that. Seeing as these guys don't know how to vbet I should stop doing it for them.

Amiright?
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badgers
Old 03-29-2008, 10:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Yeah actually I just reread this post and there isn't really a question in it. I might go find some example HHs later. It was going to be a question but as I wrote I worked it out.

Just wondering really if this sort of realisation has occured / will be useful to others or if it's just me.
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 03-29-2008, 11:12 PM #3 (permalink)  
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very good insight. IMO to what extent you're capable of analyzing other's play and your own in such a manner is what dictates where you fall along the spectrum of total fish to world class player.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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XTR1000
Old 03-30-2008, 12:00 AM #4 (permalink)  
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dude, u´ve just stopped bleeding chips to retarded set farmers. vs non-thinking nits u take the money pre and on flop, once they see a turn "thin" spots are extremely rare
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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badgers
Old 03-30-2008, 06:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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This is the sort of spot i mean.

Opp is 11/8 with 15 attempt to steal over 600. I have a rather convenient/ relevant note on him that says...

crap 3bet sizing but still means strength
2.5 pre for QQ/KK, 2for less...

I am fairly sure that his lack of positional awareness coupled with his crap 3bet sizing means he does not 3bet light...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($50)
UTG ($97.50)
MP1 ($10.20)
MP2 ($31.35)
CO ($50.25)
Hero ($46.50)
SB ($22.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, BB raises to $5, UTG folds, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($10.75) 7, K, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($10.75) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($10.75) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $10.75

Previously I would have vbet the river for sure.
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XTR1000
Old 03-30-2008, 06:20 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Given your reads theres no value in this hand.

if he doesnt slowplay KK+ here this is a good spot to bluff him off JJ/QQ tho
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xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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aka_red
Old 03-30-2008, 06:33 PM #7 (permalink)  
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sounds like this guy is pretty nitty and bad i think if you 2 barrel him he will lay it down. he may even not float you on the flop and just lay it down if he has queeeens liek xtr said
[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
 
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AlexMorris
Old 03-31-2008, 05:37 PM #8 (permalink)  

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The river seems like the only street not worth betting. On flop or turn you're at least representing the king and have the added threat of more bets on later streets. On the river, that threat is gone, so he can easily call with QQ or JJ. It seems like you either need to bet flop or turn ($7), or you need to check it down.

Against an uber-nit I like to check it down. Against a regular nit (like this guy), I bet that flop 80% of the time and then shut down if he doesn't fold.
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Fnord
Old 03-31-2008, 05:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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If you don't let them play big pots with their big hands, you already have very strong Reciprocality against them. I usually take the money and run instead of trying to turn moderate mistakes into very big ones.

http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/reciprocality.htm

I count 3 mistakes in this hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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sarbox68
Old 04-01-2008, 04:24 AM #10 (permalink)  
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I find FT $10NL to be nit-land... and in nit-land I have been winning many small hands and losing the less frequent big ones. Win .40 and lose $10 enuff times and I got break even poker at best...

If I had eliminated all of my shoves into the nuts, I'd be playing poker "profit style" at FT like I am at UB & AP.

So now in nit-land I'm gonna believe... and I'm gonna make them work to get my chips.. and I'm gonna take my pre- and flop $ and run like a ho with no change, an empty meter, and her pimp's ride with expired registration two blocks from five-oh's parking lot....

...less I got something super strong, of course
 
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d0zer
Old 04-01-2008, 02:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 10NL is nitland?

Practice better table selection.

I've only played 3k hands at 10NL, but it was far from 'nitland'. I played 40k hands at 25NL & 50NL at FT and neither were 'nitland'.

Me thinks you've been spoiled by the crazies at UB & AP :P
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pgil
Old 04-01-2008, 03:29 PM #12 (permalink)  
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that was a good read fnord, thanks for posting
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-01-2008, 06:30 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
If you don't let them play big pots with their big hands, you already have very strong Reciprocality against them. I usually take the money and run instead of trying to turn moderate mistakes into very big ones.

http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/reciprocality.htm

I count 3 mistakes in this hand.
excellent post. I just hate the fact that he quotes himself in "quotations."


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Erpel
Old 04-02-2008, 12:27 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
excellent post. I just hate the fact that he quotes himself in "quotations."
I thought that was odd at first also, but thinking about it I can kind of see where he's coming from. It's suggesting that it's a turn of phrase that he's known for using, has used in the past and which is associated with him. Listing it in this way suggests that what he's writing here is an elucidation of a one-liner previously unexplained.

If as a result of this writing he distilled a concept into a handy one-liner and this was the place he introduces this one-liner I think it would appear as synopsis or conclusion rather than as a quote.
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