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Chasing a nut flush, with only one of the suits in hand.

  
 
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maverickai
Old 02-06-2007, 03:33 PM     Post subject: Chasing a nut flush, with only one of the suits in hand. #1 (permalink)  

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maverickai
Hi, I'm always pretty puzzled about what I should do if I have a nut flush draw, but I'm only holding one of the flush cards, with a flop of the same suit. Should I take it as I have 9 outs and play aggressively? Or even push all-in on the flop?

Below is an example which got me thinking... I'm Maverickai.


maverickai is at seat 1 with $22.82.
loded1025 is at seat 2 with $25.04.
TurtleTop is at seat 3 with $25.63.
mrftkw is at seat 4 with $6.92.
MaPaKettle is at seat 5 with $7.68.
Powder71 is at seat 6 with $49.79.
Sebastian_X is at seat 7 with $18.76.
HoldHandsJLS is at seat 8 with $14.05.
tasam is at seat 9 with $12.15.
The button is at seat 1.

loded1025 posts the small blind of $.10.
TurtleTop posts the big blind of $.25.

maverickai: Kh Ks
loded1025: -- --
TurtleTop: -- --
mrftkw: -- --
MaPaKettle: -- --
Powder71: -- --
Sebastian_X: -- --
HoldHandsJLS: -- --
tasam: -- --

Pre-flop:

mrftkw folds. MaPaKettle folds. Powder71 raises to
$.75. Sebastian_X folds. HoldHandsJLS folds.
tasam calls. maverickai re-raises to $2.75.
loded1025 folds. TurtleTop folds. Powder71 calls.
tasam calls.

Flop (board: 7s As Ts):

Powder71 checks. tasam checks. maverickai checks.


Turn (board: 7s As Ts 3c):

Powder71 bets $10. tasam folds. maverickai ???

Please advise...
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parky
Old 02-06-2007, 05:52 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think you should have bet the flop with K's and flush draw. As played here I think villian has Ax or two small spades. A nice continuation bet here might have caused him to fold Ax. I think as played you have to fold the turn as you are not getting enough pot odds to call in my opinion. I am always leery of KK when an A is on flop and if my continuation bet is called I usually fold next round unless I really improve.
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griffey24
Old 02-06-2007, 07:17 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parky
I think you should have bet the flop with K's and flush draw. As played here I think villian has Ax or two small spades. A nice continuation bet here might have caused him to fold Ax. I think as played you have to fold the turn as you are not getting enough pot odds to call in my opinion. I am always leery of KK when an A is on flop and if my continuation bet is called I usually fold next round unless I really improve.
I'm not so sure about this. Villains called the re-raise, so if they have an ace, its probably a good enough kicker to call a cont bet here. I don't mind the flop check actually, but given that you checked and showed weakness, I think you have to call the turn bet. If he fires strong again on a non spade river, then I'd imagine you should fold.
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bigslikk
Old 02-06-2007, 07:30 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I'd c-bet the flop, you might take it down, and it'd disguise the spade draw. Maybe villain with 2 small spades would contiue to slowplay on the turn (if he figures u have an ace).
 
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Warpe
Old 02-06-2007, 07:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Overpair+nut flush draw+preflop aggressor, I don't see why we're taking our foot off the gas.



 
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jyms
Old 02-06-2007, 07:48 PM     Post subject: Re: Chasing a nut flush, with only one of the suits in hand. #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Overpair???+nut flush draw+preflop aggressor, I don't see why we're taking our foot off the gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickai
maverickai: Kh Ks

Pre-flop:

Powder71 raises to $.75.
maverickai re-raises to $2.75.
Powder71 calls.
tasam calls.

Flop (board: 7s As Ts):

Powder71 checks. tasam checks. maverickai checks.


Turn (board: 7s As Ts 3c):

Powder71 bets $10. tasam folds. maverickai ???

Please advise...
It's possible he foiled a check raise by checking the flop, that is where he needed to bet. Now I think Villian is playing catch up with his A.
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Warpe
Old 02-06-2007, 07:51 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 It's possible. It's also possible that JJ/QQ just got a green light to bet.



 
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Beck
Old 02-06-2007, 08:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
It's possible. It's also possible that JJ/QQ just got a green light to bet.
but why over bet? maybe because he felt he missed his oppertunity to check raise and build the pot? or is he trying to push you off when he has second best hand?

-beck
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Miffed22001
Old 02-06-2007, 08:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 40% equity?

tough spot, id bet the flop though as Ax probably check/calls and checks again on the turn giving us a spot for a free card while letting us pick up enough of the pot enough of the time.
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griffey24
Old 02-06-2007, 08:51 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
It's possible. It's also possible that JJ/QQ just got a green light to bet.
Isn't this exactly the point of checking this flop? These hands will fold to a cont bet (especially since you re-raised PF and now the flop is A high) on the flop, but we want to keep worse hands in.

This is the same debate as discussed before, where we raise or re-raise kings PF in position, and the flop comes A high. Do we bet or do we check? Only in this case, we have some more outs if we're behind, with the flush.
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Warpe
Old 02-06-2007, 08:59 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Ya, same discussion, but if you check the flop then you have to call the turn, imo. We win the most when we're ahead with this line but we're losing the most when we're behind as well.



 
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griffey24
Old 02-06-2007, 10:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Ya, same discussion, but if you check the flop then you have to call the turn, imo. We win the most when we're ahead with this line but we're losing the most when we're behind as well.
I'm not sure I necessarily agree with this. We check, we call villains lead on turn, so that takes us one bet to the river. We bet, villain calls, and hopefully we get the chance to check through to the river (also one bet). BUT villain might check raise us, or lead the turn as well.

I just don't think this is the spot or hand I wanna be making a big pot, but others might disagree and say this is exactly where they want a big pot.
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BankItDrew
Old 02-09-2007, 07:09 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 i'd rather have a straight than a flush, because it's hidden better than a turned or rivered heart.

along the same lines, i'd rather have two hearts in my hand for the flush than one. because even if you do hit your 4th heart with the nut flush, who's going to pay you?


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salsa4ever
Old 02-11-2007, 02:31 AM #14 (permalink)  
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check flop call turn is a perfectly good line to me
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