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gametight
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04-21-2008, 09:03 PM
Post subject: cbet raised on dry board, discussion
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 494
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One situation that is giving me some trouble lately is when I am the preflop raiser and I cbet a dry board like Q84 rainbow or two tone, and I either get raised or check raised (if I am in position). Ill have a hand like AQ or KK or AA and not really know how to proceed. This also goes for dry A hi boards as well.
Against tight, uncreative players I usually just call and fold if they make a big turn bet... which they almost always do.
But the tough situations comes up when you have an aggressive reg that you may have some history with, and he decides to get aggro on this type of board. If the villain is aggro and rasies a two tone board in this spot, I usually default to a call and check bomb any turn that doesnt fill the flush. Although it seems like I still run into sets all the time.
I also know that this is the type of board that thinking players will raise on because its so hard to have a hand here that wants to play for stax (ie. one pair hands). Even when I have JJ on a Q high, dry flop, it feels really weak to fold to a raise in that spot. It seems that any really strong hands like sets wouldnt mind flatting and trying to get me to commit more to the pot before they decide to rasie. But I aslo see a lot of players fast playing sets regardless of the board texture and that has been getting me in trouble lately.
How do you guys deal with aggression in these types of spots against good thinking players??
Wrote this really fast so hopefully you guys get what Im saying. If not, let me know and I will clarify.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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I know exactly what you're saying and have the same problem. I usually end up calling the first bet, and folding to further aggression, but it happens more often than can be legit so IDK what I should be doing here to defend against that.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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If you are getting CRed a lot on these types of boards, I would suggest checking behind on occasion, not a lot, but just enough so that your Cbet isn't necessarily certain. This makes it harder for sets to play an obvious CR and also makes it harder to bluff raise, as many 1 pair hands can be played profitably on two streets, especially with position. This also includes checking behind with monsters on occasion.
I know that I like to raise donk bets on dry boards as the pf aggressor with very little, and assume that the same can/is being done when people are not the aggressor pf.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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what stakes and how many tables? A lot of times you feel like you're getting played back at when you're just running bad and your opponents are hitting hand.
Next time you get raised on a dry board and you MISSED, and you feel like you're getting played back at marginally, make a non-committing reraise. If you keep getting folds on the flop then maybe they are making a move. If they shove you or call the reraise, chances are they had a hand to begin with.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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I don't call raises intending to fold to further aggression against most online players. Most of them are pretty consistant about following through.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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The hard part is to determine villians range in these spots.
I ususally give them credit for a hand and just let it go until I´m sure they playing back with a wider than standard range and then expand my ranges to 3bet accordingly with MP+ and the occasional A-high/8+outer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
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yo
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I don't call raises intending to fold
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Id go with this bit for sure
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Jellodays
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 18
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I would say that there are very few good thinking players at 100 and thats why you are running into sets a lot. They are just playing their sets. Same goes for 200.
There are maybe 2 or 3 regulars who actually play back at me at 200 but even then its mostly all done preflop in LP situations. I'm still surprised that I rarely get into any big pots with the regulars but then again I do practice some amount of game selection.
Just call their flop raise if you have top pair and if they keep betting you are mostly likely beat. It may sound kind of weak but like I said, I doubt they are playing back at you or thinking as much as you believe they are.
There are plenty of tables at 100 and 200 and you should be making most of your money off the unknowns and the bad regulars.
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gametight
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 494
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Quote:
Miffed22001 Posted: Tue, 22 Apr 2008, 11:32am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fnord wrote:
I don't call raises intending to fold
Id go with this bit for sure
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So what are you guys doing in this situation....
You raise KK from middle pos. You get a caller in the CO. Caller is a reg at your game with decent stats. Flop comes Q75 rainbow.
1st. What percentage of the time are you checking this rather than c betting
2nd. Lets say you cbet 7 into 8.50 and he pops you to 21.
also if you were in pos. and get check raised here, are you giving villian much more credit for a set or are you dumping in both situations??
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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This is why the checkraise to the cbet is so powerful by the way. At lower stakes, this is a hard question to answer in general terms. I need to know who I am up against and their stack size.
As a general rule, if they have around a half stack and I have an overpair, I am taking whatever line I can to get them all in. If I don't have the goods, I fold. If I have a draw, I call. If it is a deep stack TAG sethunter(13/10 type), I am making my stand on the flop. I am going to raise or 3 bet the checkraise to the amount of money that is my maximum without pushing and see their reaction. If they push or keep going, it is a set almost 100% of the time and I can fold. The problem with calling is they are smart enough with the set to chop you on each street to commit you on the turn and river.
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