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Can you read hands? What do these players have?

  
 
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dpe8598
Old 11-03-2006, 04:47 PM     Post subject: Can you read hands? What do these players have? #1 (permalink)  
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Below I will post a few hands between "donkey donk" and "fishy fish". I will always show the hole cards of one of the players. This may or may not be me. I want you to guess the hole cards of the other players and then comment on the play. Some of these plays I like that I made, but some I'm not certain about, so all comments are appreciated. I will say who I was in each hand and my thought processes after some discussion.

Hand 1:
POKERSTARS GAME : HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) -
Table 'Cremona' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: deadwhak ($229.15 in chips)
Seat 2: MelMel77 ($25.70 in chips)
Seat 3: jono1972 ($286 in chips)
Seat 4: MonkeyRush88 ($241.75 in chips)
Seat 5: color=blue]fishy fish[/color] ($165.55 in chips)
Seat 6: donkey donk ($207.85 in chips)
Seat 7: madyizy ($471.05 in chips)
Seat 8: mzuber12 ($96 in chips)
MonkeyRush88: posts small blind $1
Smiggarette: posts big blind $2
NutzInMyHand: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to fishy fish (KD KC)
donkey donk: raises $4 to $6
madyizy: folds
mzuber12: folds
deadwhak: folds
MelMel77: folds
jono1972: folds
MonkeyRush88: calls $5
fishy fish: raises $10 to $16
donkey donk: raises $26 to $42
MonkeyRush88: folds
fishy fish: calls $26
*** FLOP *** [6s Jh 8c]
fishy fish: checks
donkey donk: bets $60
fishy fish: raises $63.55 to $123.55 and is all-in
donkey donk: calls $63.55
*** TURN *** [6s Jh 8c] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [6s Jh 8c Ad] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
fishy fish: shows [Kd Kc] (two pair, Kings and Eights)
donkey donk: shows ??


Hand 2:
POKERSTARS GAME: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2)
Table 'Edasich' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: other player ($141.95 in chips)
Seat 2: fishy fish ($175.80 in chips)
Seat 3: FeARFaCT ($197 in chips)
Seat 5: donkey donk ($324 in chips)
Seat 6: AllTheWay33 ($162.55 in chips)
Seat 8: liquidshoes ($136.30 in chips)
Seat 9: atnas3atnas ($165.80 in chips)
AllTheWay33: posts small blind $1
liquidshoes: posts big blind $2
rounders24/7: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to donkey donk [Jh As]
atnas3atnas: folds
other player: calls $2
fishy fish: raises $2 to $4
FeARFaCT: folds
donkey donk: calls $4
AllTheWay33: folds
liquidshoes: folds
other player: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [5d Ac 9s]
other player: checks
fishy fish: checks
donkey donk: bets $6
other player: calls $6
fishy fish: calls $6
*** TURN *** [5d Ac 9s] [3h]
other player: checks
fishy fish: checks
donkey donk: bets $12
other player: calls $12
fishy fish: calls $12
*** RIVER *** [5d Ac 9s 3h] [9d]
other player: checks
fishy fish: bets $20
donkey donk: ?????
other player: folds

Hand 3:
POKERSTARS GAME : HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) -
Table 'Lykaon II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Makke ($200.05 in chips)
Seat 2: fishy fish ($242.40 in chips)
Seat 3: gl79 ($197 in chips)
Seat 4: Mr.Isles ($82.25 in chips)
Seat 5: MOBstar ($205 in chips)
Seat 6: mozzy25 ($117 in chips)
Seat 7: donkey donk ($212.85 in chips)
Seat 8: sideout29 ($240.15 in chips)
Seat 9: ggbud ($278.45 in chips)
Makke: posts small blind $1
leelee23: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to donkey donk [Kc Kd]
gl79: folds
Mr.Isles: folds
MOBstar: folds
mozzy25: folds
donkey donk: raises $6 to $8
sideout29: folds
ggbud: folds
Makke: folds
fishy fish: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [8h 9h 3d]
fishy fish: checks
donkey donk: bets $15
fishy fish: raises $15 to $30
donkey donk: raises $174.85 to $204.85 and is all-in
fishy fish: calls $174.85
*** TURN *** [8h 9h 3d] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [8h 9h 3d 5h] [As]

What did fishy fish have???


There are the 3 hands, again, I might be either player in each hand, the goal is to guess what the unknown player in each hand has and discuss.
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Miffed22001
Old 11-03-2006, 04:55 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 1. Raise more preflop. On stars facing a 3bet preflop he has KK+ imo most often, but some players have opened up and start 3-betting QQ/AK preflop here. Id stack off preflop, fuck the results.
2. Id check behind on the flop, what exactly is going to hit the turn that scares us? We are either well behind or very much ahead so betting achieves not much imo unless opp is bad. We also arent looking to play a huge pot here, we want to showdown rather than get all in. Looking at the board and the miniraise preflop A9 or A5 wouldnt be surprising.
Call river as played.
3. I hate this spot. Id probably call the flop miniraise and fold the turn when the obvious draw hits. Im not sure how much i like 3betting here, but if its a fish who has shown he'll do this with a FD then yeah, shove.
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Ash256
Old 11-03-2006, 06:55 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 1. Donkey Donk has AA.
2. Fishy Fish has T9s.
3. Fishy Fish has 99, 88 or 33.
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dpe8598
Old 11-03-2006, 08:07 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
1. Raise more preflop. On stars facing a 3bet preflop he has KK+ imo most often, but some players have opened up and start 3-betting QQ/AK preflop here. Id stack off preflop, fuck the results.
2. Id check behind on the flop, what exactly is going to hit the turn that scares us? We are either well behind or very much ahead so betting achieves not much imo unless opp is bad. We also arent looking to play a huge pot here, we want to showdown rather than get all in. Looking at the board and the miniraise preflop A9 or A5 wouldnt be surprising.
Call river as played.
3. I hate this spot. Id probably call the flop miniraise and fold the turn when the obvious draw hits. Im not sure how much i like 3betting here, but if its a fish who has shown he'll do this with a FD then yeah, shove.
I'm confused on your response to the 1st hand, who should raise more? Also, are you saying that Fishy fish should go all in preflop? You said that most likely Donkey donk has KK/AA, which would be bad for Fishy Fish, or are you saying that AK/QQ is possible enough to stack off?

Hand 2: your flop check is interesting.

Hand 3: Definitely tough spot, I think the big question is does a draw happy board make it safer to push w/ overpair, or is it not much better. There is a logic that villains range is wider for reraising w/ a draw, so pushing is correct. However, it would also be true that villain would want to fast play a set w/ a draw happy board.
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Phantaroth
Old 11-03-2006, 08:23 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I didnt read responses so dunno if you said results yet:

Hand 1: JJ, QQ, or AKs

Hand 2: AA

Hand 3: 98, 93, AhKh, 99, 88, 10 10+. AhQh
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dpe8598
Old 11-03-2006, 08:33 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaroth
I didnt read responses so dunno if you said results yet:

Hand 1: JJ, QQ, or AKs

Hand 2: AA

Hand 3: 98, 93, AhKh, 99, 88, 10 10+. AhQh
Hand 1: You seem to be the 1st to think that AA and KK are not likely

Hand 2: Interesting choice

On hand 3 I'm guessing w/ that range you are not calling.
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villagenut
Old 11-03-2006, 08:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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hand 1 - JJ
Hand 2 - 55 or 99
Hand 3 - A9
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DaHorror
Old 11-03-2006, 09:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 - AA/QQ/AK/AQ/JJ - that is at least what preflop raiser/3-better is repping...but of course he could have TT/99 or even 98s/87s...those being last on the list but it happens

Hand 2 - 55 (I sure doubt it), a lot of low pairs that did not set up, AJ/AT (probably not), KQ, T9s/98s

Hand 3 - 88/99/33/AA/QQ-TT, diamond draw pretty rarely, AK/AQ pretty rarely unless it was suited diamonds
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dpe8598
Old 11-03-2006, 11:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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OK, here are the results. I was donkey donk in every hand.

Hand 1: I had AA

Hand 2: Opponent had AQ. I called but I really hated the call, which is why I posted the hand.

Hand 3: Opponent had PP 88. I can usually get away from this hand, but I'm always much more likley to put it all in w/ so many draws.
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Phantaroth
Old 11-03-2006, 11:52 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Wow I completely misread the action in hand 1... You arn't the guy with KK then?

And I think the guy with AQ really played the hand poorly.
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dpe8598
Old 11-03-2006, 11:54 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaroth
Wow I completely misread the action in hand 1... You arn't the guy with KK then?

And I think the guy with AQ really played the hand poorly.
No, I was the AA guy.

I agree thatin hand 2 the guy played that poorly. He made his only raise when his hand was most vulnerable.
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Miffed22001
Old 11-04-2006, 08:37 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpe8598
OK, here are the results. I was donkey donk in every hand.

Hand 1: I had AA

Hand 2: Opponent had AQ. I called but I really hated the call, which is why I posted the hand.

Hand 3: Opponent had PP 88. I can usually get away from this hand, but I'm always much more likley to put it all in w/ so many draws.
Pasting the results before i got up again!

Fwiw, i stand by the idea that 3-bets preflop on stars always are AA/KK against solid regulars. AT 400nl that may change as ive seen the regulars 3 betting JTs and watnot and playing poker. We discussed in another thread that people just wont fold KK preflop because your pot equity is so high and you need a really strong read for reads>pot equity with kk preflop.
People will think im mad, but i think folding KK preflop and moving onto the next hand is something ive decided to do a lot more. Even bad players dont put a lot of money in preflop without strong hands and my opinion is that lots of players play QQ scared, so when i get 3bet with KK i think i can find a better place somewhere else to play big bet poker for stacks.
KK should reraise more preflop (sorry i wasnt clear) then when AA 3 bets over the top (and id assume does it hard) we can probably fold KK. QQ/AK would perhaps call a big reraise in a 3way pot whereas AA 3bets (or pretty much has to) (obviously good players can mix it up here)
If KK had reraised oop more preflop to isolate and had been 3bet i think we can find a fold (stars only mind you, facing what i expect is a solid regular)

In hand2 i stand by my flop check, the turn will bring nothing we are scared of and we were either well ahead or well behind. If you'd showed this down without a flop bet, id have liked how you played this hand. AQ is a little surprising, but not overly so, id expect AJ/AT/A9s type hands here.

Im stuck on hand3. Its a horrible spot. If we had a read on opps stats id have decided what to do based more on those, either pushing or calling the minraise and bombing a heart free turn, but fwiw i hate PAhud and stats/numbers. I learnt to read the old-fashioned way.
Even knowing the answer i cant say you played this wrong, there are just two options and we lose either a stack or a lot of cash in one way or another. Even average/bad players get hands sometimes, its the frustration of how badly they play them in certain situations that can frustrate us.
FWIW, with a set here id shove over your flop bet and see if you like stacking off here on such an ugly board.
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Ash256
Old 11-04-2006, 01:21 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 Yay! Not bad for a 20NL donk!
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