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can AA/KK call here?

  
 
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pgil
Old 02-26-2008, 02:44 PM     Post subject: can AA/KK call here? #1 (permalink)  
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pgil
opp is somewhat taggy, borderline laggy. has been attempting to abuse position pf, and I have been attempting to thwart him. I have 3-bet him a few times, and taken the pot down each time, twice pre. I 3-bet him twice in a row, and he has since tightened up a bit. He may just be on a bad run of cards though.

This hand happened after a long session, so I don't know if my thinking is correct here. I put him on a big PP, and want to know if my push looks like a flush draw, and if we are too deep for AA/KK to call here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($20.40)
MP2 ($171.55)
Hero ($202.15)
CO ($96.50)
Button ($87.20)
SB ($84.40)
BB ($31.35)
UTG ($104.85)
UTG+1 ($166)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 3, 3.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $4, Hero calls $4, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3, UTG calls $3.

Flop: ($24.50) J, 3, T (6 players)
BB bets $1, UTG folds, MP2 raises to $25, Hero raises to $198.15
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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jimmy44
Old 02-26-2008, 03:36 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 If you put him on a big PP, what about min raising to $50? He might think you're still pushing him and can push himself first. Of course you'll risk that he is on a flush draw and get's good odds for it, but I would favor this option with the past history you described.
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Chopper
Old 02-26-2008, 07:25 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i hate minraises because of the odds they lay...

if you raise to $50, villain 1 has to call $49. assuming he calls, pot is $100 and villain 2 is calling $25 to win $100...4:1.

raise to $75, villain 1 calls $74. pot is $200. villain 2 needs to call $50 into $200...still 4:1.

raise to $100 minimum, and go from there. easy to get the rest in from there, if you want.

as played, i think you blew them out too early.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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jimmy44
Old 02-27-2008, 03:35 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I must say that on my initial answer I overlooked that there were 5 players & Hero seeing the flop.

I agree that min raising is rarely good. However, here with Hero's late action I could see that villain (MP2) would push with AA/KK and maybe QQ if we min raise. Furthermore, he might committ himself to the pot if he calls out min-raise. The problem with this is the other opps:
- BB: we cannot be worried about him, he is not likely to fold;
- CO & BU: these are the problem. If you raise to $75 you cut their odds and they'll fold almost everything. However, as their stack is of about $100, IF they are average/tight, they would call the min-raise the slightly the same hands as a raise to $75 (as MP2 might still push). IF my reasoning is correct we could question whether we should not raise to $75 instead if they call slightly with the same hands. I would say no, because here we want MP2 to push on top of our raise and stack him, we are not targetting CO and BU.
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