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Call or Raise for Value?

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 06:38 PM     Post subject: Call or Raise for Value? #1 (permalink)  
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 I have a history w Villain ; I tried to push him off top set in my previous session after he min-raised me on the flop.

I have no read on his preflop calling range.

** Game ID 903904200 starting - 2006-08-20 13:30:26
** Accent [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- sa-online sitting in seat 1 with $85.76
- VILLAIN sitting in seat 2 with $198.00
- jackandjones sitting in seat 3 with $261.15 [Sitting out]
- st777 sitting in seat 4 with $140.67
- HERO sitting in seat 5 with $219.55
- OLEGJ sitting in seat 6 with $48.00 [Dealer]

sa-online posted the small blind - $1.00
VILLAIN posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to HERO : Queen of Hearts, Queen of Clubs
st777 folded
HERO raised - $7.00
OLEGJ folded
sa-online folded
VILLAIN called - $7.00

** Dealing the flop: Queen of Spades, 6 of Hearts, 4 of Clubs
POT : 15$

VILLAIN checked
HERO bet - $11.00
VILLAIN called - $11.00

** Dealing the turn: 8 of Hearts
POT : 37$

VILLAIN bet - $16.00
HERO raised - $65.00
jackandjones reconnected
VILLAIN called - $65.00

** Dealing the river: 2 of Spades

POT : 167$

VILLAIN bet - $24.00
HERO???

My feeling during the hand was that this could be a set over set situation where villain is slowplaying a relatively dry board. His turn smooth call is strange though.

If you raise, how much do you raise and why?
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freechus9
Old 08-20-2006, 07:15 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You push because he's not going to fold to any bet after leading the river in such a huge pot if he's not bluffing.
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BobbySalami
Old 08-20-2006, 07:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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WTF, are telling me you dont consider raising here?...pay off 57, 35 all day.
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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 09:41 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
WTF, are telling me you dont consider raising here?...pay off 57, 35 all day.
of course i want to push

i m just trying to put him on a hand that will call as opposed to a hand that is relatively weak and will fold to a push after donking out the river like an idiot

like i said before i can t make much sense of his line which is why i posted
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 09:42 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 oh and also the title of post is "call or raise" so yes i "consider raising" lol
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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benny999
Old 08-20-2006, 10:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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you considering calling? raise...duh!!! imo the real choice is push or min raise...i probably push.

edit..plz dont tell me u posted because he has 75. he could also have a worse set here or even top pair if he thinks youre full of it.
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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 10:21 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point
 I posted becuz i didn't understand his 1/8 the pot river bet

how often is this a retarded weak donk-lead and how often is it a hand that 's willing to go to war?

If it's very often a donkish stab (I've very rarely encountered this type of bet) then I don't necessarily want to push for value becuz he won t call.

the hand puzzled me

of course if he calls my push like 1/3 times then it s more profitabe than min raising and getting called every time...

just not sure what best move is obv leaning towards push but I showed the HH to a friend whose opionion i respect and he seemed unsure of river (I pushed of course) and wanted to confirm that pushing was standard.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 10:22 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 oh and like I said, while I was playing the hand I felt that this smelled of set over set for me (yay!) but after the smooth called turn and donk lead I was at a loss...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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givememyleg
Old 08-20-2006, 10:38 PM #9 (permalink)  
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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 He bet out weak so you wouldn't raise him...

I'm pushing here everyday of the week, gg if he has some sort of a weird straight.. I think you're losing value in the long run by just calling this river.

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Genitruc
Old 08-20-2006, 10:45 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
He bet out weak so you wouldn't raise him...

I'm pushing here everyday of the week, gg if he has some sort of a weird straight.. I think you're losing value in the long run by just calling this river.
i agree (about the losing value long term by not raising)

just making sure

haven t posted in long time wanna make sure I haven't just been running good and morphed into an uberdonk
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benny999
Old 08-20-2006, 11:16 PM #11 (permalink)  
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cool...I was thinking that you were worrying about a str8. His bet seems to be either a block bet, which means min raise cuz it might be the only raise he calls, or a donk value bet which means he probably calls a push, but I push since he called the turn raise to 65 and now has only ~90 left and a much bigger pot.
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Genitruc
Old 08-21-2006, 08:18 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 I push villain calls and shows 3-5 offsuit gg.

didn t post cuz I was pissed just wanted to make sure it was not a situation I ever ever want to slow down...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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benny999
Old 08-21-2006, 11:32 AM #13 (permalink)  
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eh I would just laugh that one off..not many call half their stacks off on a draw, and it really could've been a worse set or something. I think you lose more value by not pushing then by calling there. the only thing looking back is maybe you could've raised closer to the pot size on the turn...anyway, I'd try to play more against this guy, and just raise him harder knowing how he chases so much.
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Genitruc
Old 08-21-2006, 04:55 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benny999
eh I would just laugh that one off..not many call half their stacks off on a draw, and it really could've been a worse set or something. I think you lose more value by not pushing then by calling there. the only thing looking back is maybe you could've raised closer to the pot size on the turn...anyway, I'd try to play more against this guy, and just raise him harder knowing how he chases so much.
yup
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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martindcx1e
Old 08-21-2006, 05:50 PM #15 (permalink)  
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add villain to buddy list and stalk him
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