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call preflop ok?

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Greedo017

10-15-2005, 10:35 PM Post subject: call preflop ok?

#1 (permalink)

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do you think my play is ok. perfect ass is tag, others are loose/dumb. crystal plays 50% raises 25%, $2 raise being normal. not sure on whether my preflop is ok, or how not ok it is.

***** Hand History for Game 2854338305 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, October 15, 18:21:58 EDT 2005
Table Table 36823 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: NVG69 ( $7.65 )
Seat 5: PerfectAss ( $19.75 )
Seat 6: crystal533 ( $14.60 )
Seat 7: Krimpie ( $76.95 )
Seat 8: imsoshiesty ( $26 )
Seat 9: lloh8 ( $26.95 )
Seat 1: mcgoo49 ( $42.80 )
Seat 3: Climacus ( $5.85 )
Seat 2: Legnas ( $8.15 )
Seat 10: xchinmusicx ( $20.85 )
Climacus posts small blind [$0.10].
NVG69 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to imsoshiesty [ 4s 4d ]
PerfectAss calls [$0.25].
crystal533 raises [$2].
imsoshiesty calls [$2].
lloh8 folds.
xchinmusicx calls [$2].
mcgoo49 folds.
Legnas folds.
Climacus folds.
NVG69 folds.
PerfectAss raises [$5.75].
crystal533 calls [$4].
imsoshiesty calls [$4].
xchinmusicx folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 4c, Td ]
PerfectAss is all-In [$13.75]
crystal533 is all-In [$8.60]
imsoshiesty calls [$13.75].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
PerfectAss shows [ Ac, Ah ] a pair of aces.
crystal533 shows [ Ts, Jc ] two pairs, jacks and tens.
imsoshiesty shows [ 4s, 4d ] three of a kind, fours.
imsoshiesty wins $9.80 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, fours.
imsoshiesty wins $43.85 from the main pot with three of a kind, fours.

My logic at the time went like this. I can call the 2 dollars, because i will surely get another caller or two at this table (which i did), and if we end up heads up there is a good chance of me taking it without setting. then after the reraise, i need to call 4 into a 14 dollar pot, which gives me 3.5-1 odds right there. should i set i'll get the extra ~14+~8 = 22, which gives me 5.5, so that's 9 to 1 odds so i'm covered. xchin potentially calling gave me a little more buffer. is this right, or what would you do differently?

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

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allLiving

10-15-2005, 10:43 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I dont think you had the correct odds preflop, but your incentive was to de-stack him since he obviously had a huge pair.

PocketFives - allLiving
Pokerstars - [595-ESCAPE]

10-15-2005, 11:02 PM

#3 (permalink)

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I don't even call the first raise, let alone the second raise. Neither opponent has enough money to make this play profitable over the long haul.

bencathers

10-15-2005, 11:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Manhattan & Boston

Posts: 480

LOL at 25NL. Guy limp raises with AA and other guy raises with TJ o/s... then insta-all ins with overpair, tpgk and a set. I love it

Btw, I think it's fine. If not, just watch the WSOP where the guy raised it to 1000 (on like 25/50 blinds) and sammy called with 3-3 and was able to destack AA after hitting a set

Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol

10-16-2005, 12:00 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Hogimacaca

10-16-2005, 12:03 AM

#6 (permalink)

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WOuld u haveposted this hand if u didn't make a set?

And no, WTF do u thik a limp reraise means here

Hoe-g-muh-ca-ca

johnny_fish

10-16-2005, 12:36 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

And no, WTF do u thik a limp reraise means here

Knowing it's AA increases the implied odds.

bencathers

10-16-2005, 01:09 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

Quote:

And no, WTF do u thik a limp reraise means here

Knowing it's AA increases the implied odds.

Bing!

Fnord

10-16-2005, 01:51 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

you really dont have the stack to be calling that pre flop raise with a low pocket pair

my rule of thumb is if I have 10 times the size of the raise as my stack...I call a pre flop bet with ANY pocket pair

your odds of flopping the set is 12.5%...so make the call if you have the stack to absorb the loss if you miss

Yup... and I want to add a couple other things to think about in these spots.

Consider that you will lose set over set every now and then, so you really want to be putting in 5% or less.

Will he stack off if you hit? A good player will often find a way to get away from Aces/Kings for 25, 33, 50BB or so instead of dropping the full 100+

How many other players are in the hand? More players will put more money in the pot pre-flop (covering your bet) and give you a chance to take down 2 stacks. Although, I think you'd have to be playing against some horrible players and dodge a lot of cards for 22-77 to take down 3 stacks with a set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Chicago_Kid

10-16-2005, 10:56 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

my rule of thumb is if I have 10 times the size of the raise as my stack...I call a pre flop bet with ANY pocket pair

This is why I chip up if I have a long run w/o dragging a pot, and deplete my leverage. You need to be ready for these golden opportunities to achieve maximum pwnage...

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

10-16-2005, 11:57 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bencathers

Btw, I think it's fine. If not, just watch the WSOP where the guy raised it to 1000 (on like 25/50 blinds) and sammy called with 3-3 and was able to destack AA after hitting a set

Yaeh, but the implied odds were definitely there for Sammy Farha to make that call with 33. It was one of the first hands of the tournament, both players had 10k in front of them (actually, Sammy Farha with 33 had 20k in front of him because he had just doubled up). The raise was 10% of the guy's stack, it cost Farha $1,000 to call.

Sammy will call it knowing that 1/8 times he will hit a set on the flop. So, 1/8 times he wins $10,000 (if he is able to destack the guy). The seven times he doesn't hit a set? He loses $7,000. That looks like a +EV play to me (as long as he destacks the guy if he hits his set on the flop).

But the way the hand you described played out...the absolute ONLY way this hand can be +EV is to have BOTH OPPONENTS end up being all-in. It's not too often that you see a 3-way all-in at a table, so I think this is a -EV play overall.

And again, I don't even call the FIRST raise. You're calling a $2 raise from a guy that has $14. So, 1/8 you will win $14, and 7/8 you will lose $14. And these numbers only work out if you are GUARENTEED that he will end up all-in (which there never is a guarentee).

It looks like an -EV play to me. At best it is an even money play. Find a better spot.

Chicago_Kid

10-17-2005, 12:22 AM

#12 (permalink)

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uGeorge--everytime I see your nun-chucks guy, I laugh...

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

Greedo017

10-17-2005, 12:45 AM

#13 (permalink)

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ok, just wondering generally what people thought. I think my logic makes sense on making this particular scenario technically +EV, given that my assumptions at each given stage were correct (will get more callers of the 2 dollar bet, will destack both after the reraise if i set the flop), but overall i think just folding to the first 2 dollar raise was probably better.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

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