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C-bets and second barrels

  
 
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Warpe
Old 04-07-2006, 03:29 PM     Post subject: C-bets and second barrels #1 (permalink)  
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 These are hands that always give me problems. I miss the flop, fire off a c-bet and get called. Turn misses...Fire a second barrel or no? And is my c-bet too small?

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No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
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Stack sizes:
UTG: $36
UTG+1: $96.60
CO: $119.35
Button: $154.40
Hero: $97.30
BB: $35.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K A
UTG raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero raises to $4.5, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 7 2 9 ($13.5, 3 players)
Hero bets $6, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: 2 ($31.5, 3 players)
Hero ???



 
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gabe
Old 04-07-2006, 03:46 PM #2 (permalink)  
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no 2nd barrel against 2 people!
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-07-2006, 03:53 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I don't bet the flop, but yeah you can't second barrel that, I could see someone flat calling the flop with A9
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Renton
Old 04-07-2006, 03:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 i pot this flop and don't deposit a single additional cent if its called. You have to represent postflop what you represented preflop (QQ+). I'd raise you with any two if I were UTG (then again I'd have you beat if I were UTG, I never raise UTG without something good)

Also you should have reraised a little more preflop maybe.
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Warpe
Old 04-07-2006, 04:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 So...unanimity on no second barrel...

I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.

Here's the rest, just for interest:

Turn: 2 ($31.5, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: A ($52.5, 3 players)
Hero bets $20, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $20 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $52.5



 
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cardsman1992
Old 04-07-2006, 04:32 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Agaist 2, I probably wouldn't fire the second barrel. Against one, definitely. Tiny bet on turn is suspicious, I would probably raise. But then again I have loads of problems with AK.....

I likely play it like you did, except maybe I raise turn as I said. I would go at least 2/3 pot on flop, too....Problem is, raising on the turn likely commits you on the river and could be the leading cause of WHY I SUCK with AK.....

Nice takedown, btw.
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Fnord
Old 04-07-2006, 04:37 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Raise bigger pre-flop and bet the flop harder and you won't be in spots like this. Rep Aces here.

That said, I play this weak and just call pre-flop. OOP with AK vs an UTG raise isn't all that great of a position.
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bair
Old 04-07-2006, 04:40 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.
i strongly disagree, a reraise preflop and a check on the flop usually means monster
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jackvance
Old 04-07-2006, 04:54 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.
That is very true. But the same counts for the below half pot bets you make. You're not even discouraging draws with those. C-bet 2/3 pot, if they stick in there atleast you know something.

And against more than one person, c-bets are always kinda tricky to begin with..
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Fnord
Old 04-07-2006, 04:57 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.
Why do you need to fight over EVERY pot you enter with a PFR?
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Warpe
Old 04-07-2006, 05:01 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.
i strongly disagree, a reraise preflop and a check on the flop usually means monster
I see what your point, although I think it can say both. What's your line then? Check/call? Check/raise? A little expensive for a missed flop, isn't it? Aren't you losing control of the hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Raise bigger pre-flop and bet the flop harder and you won't be in spots like this. Rep Aces here.
Gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
That said, I play this weak and just call pre-flop. OOP with AK vs an UTG raise isn't all that great of a position.
Gotcha.



 
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jackvance
Old 04-07-2006, 05:03 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why do you need to fight over EVERY pot you enter with a PFR?
Yeah, this was a mistake of mine that I caught a while back. Now I try to gauge from the texture of the flop if it is likely he hit or not. If it is, no need to c-bet or anything.
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Warpe
Old 04-07-2006, 05:07 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
I can't agree with you on not betting the flop, Iowa. That's saying I missed and putting up the for sale sign.
Why do you need to fight over EVERY pot you enter with a PFR?
Type A personality? Stubborness? Or, more likely, LEAK?



 
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Pelion
Old 04-07-2006, 07:22 PM #14 (permalink)  
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i make it $10 on that flop. Give up if its called.

AK im still not comfortable with AK when someone else has raised. Ive tried reraising and ive tried calling and I dont like either yet....maybe ill just fold it lol.
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Renton
Old 04-07-2006, 07:28 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
AK im still not comfortable with AK when someone else has raised. Ive tried reraising and ive tried calling and I dont like either yet....maybe ill just fold it lol.
If the initial raiser isn't tight, then I usually just reraise pot, especially if I am on the blinds. I don't want to play AK out of position. It's also a pleasure taking down a sizable pot preflop with a hand that only hits 1 in 3 flops.
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