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salsa4ever
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09-11-2005, 08:24 AM
Post subject: bottom set: and I see 2 people all in on flop. Your move?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Fresh off doubling up, I get the following hand:
Eurobet (Party) 25 NL 10 players
Hero (4,4) in BB
UTG raises to 0.50, MP1 raises to 1.00, Hero calls (0.75), UTG raises 1.50, MP1 calls (0.5), Hero calls (0.5)
Pot ($4.60)
Flop comes (A, K, 4) rainbow
Hero bets (3), UTG calls (3), MP1 raises (6), Hero calls (3), UTG is all in (40), MP1 is all in (10).
Will cost me $30 to call
Read on UTG: LaGG (rough read; 4 tabling)
DPs available: 2
What's your move?
(Results later)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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pizzatron
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 40
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edited.
i think the preflop action indicates no AA/KK. but then you could probably find a better spot since you haven't invested much.
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PUSSSSHHHHHHH
you got that silly AQ beat
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Always get all you money in any time you flop a set. Even if everyone at the TABLE is going AI.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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I was thinking the way the pre-flop and flop action went, someone would have KK or AA.
As it turned out, I called. UTG showed KK. I actually thought I was spewing chips here... but I guess the general consensus is that you can't go far wrong by getting all your chips in with a set? Guess I just shrug my shoulders and move on; cleared my bonus and made $60 in 2 hours anyway. So not too bad
Thanks guys
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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if you're not paying flopped set vs set off, you played it very very wrong
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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Jimmy Mac
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09-12-2005, 05:08 AM
Post subject: Re: bottom set: and I see 2 people all in on flop. Your mov
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#7 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
Fresh off doubling up, I get the following hand:
Hero bets (3), UTG calls (3), MP1 raises (6), Hero calls (3), UTG is all in (40), MP1 is all in (10).
Will cost me $30 to call
Read on UTG: LaGG (rough read; 4 tabling)
DPs available: 2
(Results later)
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Pull the plug on your internet 
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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ALLIN like they do on TV...
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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Checkways
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
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Don't worry about set vs. set. It sucks when it happens, but if you're laying down sets because of this fear then you are losing money.
AK would have played it the same way and you obviously have that beat. The short stack could call with anything including a gutshot draw. Shorties get desperate u know.
You played it the right way in my opinion.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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I was considering pulling the plug as Jimmy Mac suggested
Would you agree that pulling the plug is -EV compared to calling? Comparing calling and disconnecting...
I gain $40 if I win
I gain $20 if I'm 2nd best and MP1 wins
I lose $30 if UTG wins
If the respective probabilities here are 0.33, 0.33, 0.33, then the difference in EV between calling and disconnecting is =0. If the probabilities are 0.45, 0.1, 0.45 then my EV is +6.5... Am I a favorite or close enough to even money to justify the call? I think so...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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face
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
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People who disconnect in that situation deserve to be tortured. Don't be that guy. Pay off set over set every time and laugh at the universe who just called you a douchebag.
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Marc S
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10
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depends if you can read a set.......very hard skill to obtain. make sure u watch very closely how betting goes...preflop bets,check raises are key as well as lack of draws on board and massive action
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BIGandRICH
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jazz Club
Posts: 419
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you call with 44 to hit a set and get all your chips in.. not hit a set and fold..
my thoughts were AQ, AK.. have to pay it off and move on
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villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
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Marc S
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10
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paying off higher sets 100% of the time isn't advanced play
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Started with $50 July 25/05
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marc S
paying off higher sets 100% of the time isn't advanced play
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Also, if you have quads, you might want to fold them if you suspect higher quads. 89 spades on TJQ spades board? Muck if there is any action! Trust your reads!
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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I agree with the 100% of the time....If someone is a total rock, you've only seen him limp 4 or 5 times and twice he's shown down a pocket pair (read: he limps pocket pairs), and you flop bottom set and he raises you, you re raise, and he pushes...Then you can find a fold there. I think that paying off a higher set with your set about 97% of the time is about as advanced play as you're gonna get.
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face
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marc S
paying off higher sets 100% of the time isn't advanced play
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Post one hand where you made a read of a higher set and you laid down a flopped set.... I want to see what it looks like.
I think stacks aren't deep enough in the game we are talking about to make this kind of play. With 500BB stacks facing two allins on a completely non-scary board when you hold a set of 2s and a very strong read, set over set might be plausible enough to lay the hand down.
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tcpj4
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Always get all you money in any time you flop a set. Even if everyone at the TABLE is going AI.
-'rilla
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I see posts like this all the time, do you all go 100% by it? What about on dangerous straight/flushboards? Or boards where pf op reps AA/KK and the board is like this example, AK4? Is the black and white rule never fold a set on the flop?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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you hold :Th: :Ts: on a :Tc: :Qc: :Ac: flop... 8 people are all-in in front of you.
Then maybe you can fold.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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IMO flush and straight boards are a little different. If there are obvious straights/flushes available, (moreso on the turn than the flop), then i'll lay down a set. its mainly, if the board is like aq5, and you have 5's, don't lay it down because you think someone's got aces. ak/aq play it the same way most of the time.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I don't know. I think there are times when you should play cautiously with a set. Say you call a raise preflop from a decent player with 9-9, and the flop comes A, 9, 2. He checks to you, you bet, and he calls. The turn is a blank, he checks to you, you bet, and suddenly he raises. There aren't many hands that would be played that way aside from A-A. In that case I think it's probably best to just call, and then call on the river.
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Marc S
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10
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i actually folded a set to higher set yesterday. ALso read a higher said and posted it in the message board "saying i got 8's but ur set of 10's beats me". But called anyway due to pot size, etc in case I was wrong and that call haunted me until I went to bed lol. But i am not right 100% of the time, no one is, I just said sometimes it is obvious if u know the other player. I have paid off my share of higher sets so I am not saying I can do it everytime since reading a set IS one of the hardest reads in poker.
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Started with $50 July 25/05
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face
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
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Could you post those hand histories? I'm not trying to be rude, I genuinely want to see them.
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DimitriT
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 614
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Forget about what your cards are. If you can put your opp on KK or AA here you may as well be holding 73os. If you are zoned in on your reads and are 90% sure, I say lay 'em down and move on.
I've made laydowns holding overpairs and 2 pair but haven't been in the situation to lay down a set. But that just means I haven't had a good enough read.
There's nothing in the pre-flop action to indicate AA or KK here without a read. The action on the flop could be AK, although I would have to be cautious against a 4-tabling player who can probably sit back and wait for the THE HAND before making this move. I'd have to have seen him play AK a few time and seen how he bets the hand pre-flop. If he uniformly calls $1 PF with AK from LP and he seems like a tight, patient player, and depending on what I had for dinner that night, I MAY be able to lay that down.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Somebody posted the statistics of somebody having a higher set to your set a while back (6 months ago or so). Statistically, it does not make sense to fold. I think the chance are less than 7% that somebody has a higher set and of course the higher your set, the number goes down. Are going to attempt to figure out if this is one of those 7%?
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