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Bottom 2 vs Fnord

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IRBusto

06-13-2006, 03:33 PM Post subject: Bottom 2 vs Fnord

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

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I think Fnord is on tilt or thinks he can run over the table or something. He's playing really fast and loose. I have him at 24% VP$IP 15.5% PFR. He's blown nearly a buy-in already at the table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($119.65)
UTG (Fnord) ($99.50)
MP1 ($65.25)
MP2 ($157.85)
CO ($113.40)
Button ($67.25)
SB (Hero) ($240.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

UTG (Fnord) raises to $4, 2 folds, CO calls $4, 1 fold, SB (Hero) calls $3.50, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($16) J

, Q

, K

(4 players)
Hero bets $10, BB folds, Fnord raises to $40, CO folds, Hero raises to $236.2 (all-in)

How did I do?

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arkana

06-13-2006, 03:54 PM

#2 (permalink)

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How loose has he been with his UTG raises? I really dont like bottom 2 pair on such a coordinated broadway flop and Fnord knows that a lot of hands hit that flop hard making it more likely that he expects a call from you (and less likely for him to be bluffing). Even against AA you are not that far ahead and there are so many hands that have you beat on this flop, i think you have to fold to his raise. I think going for a check raise on that flop is better than leading it.

Of course it all depends on how he views you and how bad he is tilting (if he really is).

Fnord

06-13-2006, 04:06 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

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Stripclubjunkie

06-13-2006, 05:27 PM

#4 (permalink)

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To me it seems like Fnords 40$ bet is a info reraise? We could try to put him on a hand range...I dont think he's on tilt, could it be b/c the table is weak?

jackvance

06-13-2006, 05:32 PM

#5 (permalink)

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He has 22?

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Stripclubjunkie

06-13-2006, 05:34 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

He has 22?

If he has 22 i think he would fold to heros allin...

Lukie

06-13-2006, 06:28 PM

#7 (permalink)

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fold preflop, not close.

I'd also fold to the flop raise.

Fnord

06-13-2006, 08:35 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

He has 22?

What do you think I have here? Put me on a range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

06-13-2006, 08:42 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

He has 22?

What do you think I have here? Put me on a range

22-AA, AK, rare SCs.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

bdawg56kg

06-13-2006, 08:51 PM

#10 (permalink)

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How often has fnord been c-betting? I think this is a rare spot where I like a check-raise, hopefully to induce a push out of fnord with a draw or weak hand. But b3b is okay too. Also, fold pf.

Fnord

06-13-2006, 10:00 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

He has 22?

What do you think I have here? Put me on a range

22-AA, AK, rare SCs.

pre-flop or post-flop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

06-13-2006, 10:04 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

I think this is a rare spot where I like a check-raise, hopefully to induce a push out of fnord with a draw or weak hand.

Flop: ($16) J

, Q

, K

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Fnord bets $10, CO folds, Hero raises to $30, BB folds, Fnord Insta-Pushes for $95

Insta-call that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Also, fold pf.

What if it was s00ted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

06-13-2006, 10:20 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

He has 22?

What do you think I have here? Put me on a range

22-AA, AK, rare SCs.

pre-flop or post-flop?

I was speaking pre flop but it works post flop too.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

Fnord

06-13-2006, 10:26 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Board: Kc Qc Js
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 71.8755 % 70.63% 01.25% { QdJh }
Hand 2: 28.1245 % 26.88% 01.25% { 22+, AKs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AKo }

Gamble with the sTAggo-nut-job here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

06-13-2006, 10:34 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Board: Kc Qc Js
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 71.8755 % 70.63% 01.25% { QdJh }
Hand 2: 28.1245 % 26.88% 01.25% { 22+, AKs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AKo }

Gamble with the sTAggo-nut-job here?

No but that doesn't mean you are above testing him to see if he can be pushed off.

I think you folded to the push. I think the push was over zelous and pushed out a worse hand that may have put more $ in the pot.
Just MO though. I am merely a student here.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

IRBusto

06-14-2006, 05:45 AM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 2

Yeah, I think he's on tilt. Either that, or I just don't get it.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($203.65)
SB ($113.40)
BB ($100)
UTG ($122.60)
MP1 ($130.30)
MP2 ($98.05)
Fnord ($120.35)

Preflop:
1 fold, MP1 calls $1, 1 fold, Fnord calls $1, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($3.50) Q

, J

, 5

(3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets $3, Fnord calls $3, BB folds.

Turn: ($9.50) 5

(2 players)
MP1 bets $5, Fnord raises to $15, MP1 calls $10.

River: ($39.50) A

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Fnord bets $20, MP1 calls $20.

Final Pot: $79.50

Results in white below:
MP1 has Qc Kh (two pair, queens and fives).
Fnord has 5d 7d (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Fnord wins $79.50.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($112.15)
Fnord ($130.80)
BB ($80)
UTG ($101.75)
UTG+1 ($63.20)
MP1 ($344.65)
MP2 ($249.15)
CO ($193.20)

Preflop:
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 3 folds, Button calls $1, Fnord raises to $8, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Button calls $7.

Flop: ($19) A

, 8

, 7

(2 players)
Fnord bets $12, Button raises to $24, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: $55

Results in white below:
Button Shows 2

Button wins $55.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($108.45)
Fnord ($196.40)
UTG ($92.50)
UTG+1 ($24.30)
MP1 ($99.50)
MP2 ($98)
MP3 ($74.65)
CO ($51.75)
Button ($99.50)

Preflop:
5 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $4, Fnord calls $3, CO calls $3.

Flop: ($12) A

, 5

, 3

(3 players)
SB bets $4, Fnord calls $4, CO folds.

Turn: ($20) 4

(2 players)
SB checks, Fnord checks.

River: ($20) 3

(2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $10, SB calls $10.

Final Pot: $40

Results in white below:
SB has Qh Qs (two pair, queens and threes).
Fnord has Tc 8c (one pair, threes).
Outcome: SB wins $40.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($141.30)
BB ($112.55)
UTG ($210.65)
UTG+1 ($100)
Fnord ($105.80)
MP2 ($38.80)
MP3 ($255.70)
CO ($165.50)
Button ($246.80)

Preflop:
2 folds, Fnord raises to $4, 5 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 8

, 5

, 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $6, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) 7

(2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $15, BB calls $15.

River: ($50.50) 5

(2 players)
BB checks, Fnord checks.

Final Pot: $50.50

Results in white below:
BB has Ah 9s (two pair, nines and fives).
Fnord has 7h 8h (two pair, eights and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins $50.50.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($133.80)
UTG+1 ($91.20)
MP1 ($71.25)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($123.45)
Button ($87.50)
SB ($75.65)
Fnord ($132.65)

Preflop:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $3, Fnord calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, CO calls $2.

Flop: ($18) 8

, 7

, 6

(6 players)
SB bets $10, Fnord raises to $30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls $20.

Turn: ($78) 4

(2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $99.65 (All-In), SB calls $42.65 (All-In).

River: ($220.30) A

I did not expect him to raise so hard with the nuts.

Warpe

06-14-2006, 06:25 AM

#17 (permalink)

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He's such a bluffer, our Fnord.

I don't think these are all that tilty, actually. One river bluff and one semi-bluff gone bad and one nasty case of counterfeiting. GAMBOOL!

bdawg56kg

06-14-2006, 07:27 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

I think this is a rare spot where I like a check-raise, hopefully to induce a push out of fnord with a draw or weak hand.

Flop: ($16) J

, Q

, K

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Fnord bets $10, CO folds, Hero raises to $30, BB folds, Fnord Insta-Pushes for $95

Insta-call that?

Yeah, given your image and what not, I probably would gamble with you here. Another reason I like cr'ing and calling a push slightly better than b/3b is that i think all the hands that call a push from us will certainly push if we cr, but in addition you will no doubt push more hands than you will call a b/3b with. So we encourage the weaker portion of your range by cr'ing imo. But if you had not been getting out of line, I wouldn't felt this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Also, fold pf.

What if it was s00ted?

It's sooted and connected. Folding is not an option!

j/k, seriously, I'd probably call, if not RR.

midas06

06-14-2006, 07:34 AM

#19 (permalink)

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lol

jackvance

06-14-2006, 02:39 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IRBusto

Yeah, I think he's on tilt. Either that, or I just don't get it.

I don't see proof of tilt in those hands.. I think he mainly plays different from what you are used to.

Quote:

In the hand I posted, he called with the nuts. No help on the turn or river.

I did not expect him to raise so hard with the nuts.

See, that's the whole point of the aggressive style.. you overplay some hands, ie semi-bluff or 'test' your opponent, so that you can aggressively play your monsters and stack people with them. If he'd be slowplaying his monsters that would totally ruin the whole point of it.

It might look like tilt to you, but a good aggressive player (like Fnord probably) isn't randomly being aggressive at all.. he's reading flops and hand ranges and all that just like you, he's just using a different strategy.

I also like to play Lagg, or very aggressive, for this very reason.. it's - atleast in my experience - the strategy that gives you the highest winrate (on the right tables). Nice to see the other perspective here, since I'm usually the one playing like this, not on the receiving end.. so it looks like tilt huh? :P

cardsman1992

06-14-2006, 03:33 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Since when is 24/15 on tilt?

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DaHorror

06-14-2006, 03:59 PM

#22 (permalink)

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If it was just some random who you'd seen calling down and bluffing with nothing, reraising/pushing with draws, etc. ... in that case I think you pretty much do push the flop here and pay off his set/straight/better two pair.

Fold preflop has already been stated. I don't think we want to play a flimsy drawing hand out of position against a known high agro player.

Fnord

06-14-2006, 04:20 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Since when is 24/15 on tilt?

This is full ring, and the regular player in that game is 15/5 (although that still might be on the aggro side pre-flop.) A cold pre-flop re-raise is almost always AA/KK, sometimes QQ/AK if they're feeling LAggy, unless you're dealing with a known fish. Limping and folding to a position raise is also a popular play. I know I've established myself on the table when they stop doing that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

06-14-2006, 04:22 PM

#24 (permalink)

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Fnord is one of those people that if he were at my table I would just resolve not to play him. Even then, I would still lose a couple of big hands to him because sometimes you just KNOW you are ahead…when you are not. hehe.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

cardsman1992

06-14-2006, 05:07 PM

#25 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Since when is 24/15 on tilt?

I see. I was just curious, I know there are some tables I run 24+/10+ on when I am running good. But that's at $25 and most tables are not that tight......

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
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Warpe

06-14-2006, 08:14 PM

#26 (permalink)

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This hand intrigues me, Fnord:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($133.80)
UTG+1 ($91.20)
MP1 ($71.25)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($123.45)
Button ($87.50)
SB ($75.65)
Fnord ($132.65)

Preflop:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $3, Fnord calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, CO calls $2.

Flop: ($18) 8

, 7

, 6

(6 players)
SB bets $10, Fnord raises to $30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls $20.

Turn: ($78) 4

(2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $99.65 (All-In), SB calls $42.65 (All-In).

River: ($220.30) A

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $220.30

Results in white below:
SB has 8s 8d (three of a kind, eights).
Fnord has 9c Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $163.30. Fnord wins $57.

I kind of like this line, but:

Would you have made this play if you had put SB on a set? Or did you after he called the flop raise?

Do you think SB would've called the a/i if he'd had more money behind? Would you with a set here?

Rondavu

06-14-2006, 08:27 PM Post subject: Re: Bottom 2 vs Fnord

#27 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IRBusto

I think Fnord is on tilt or thinks he can run over the table or something.

Flop: ($16) J

, Q

, K

(4 players)
Hero bets $10, BB folds, Fnord raises to $40, CO folds, Hero raises to $236.2 (all-in)

How did I do?

You tilted.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Fnord

06-14-2006, 08:53 PM

#28 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

This hand intrigues me, Fnord:

....

Flop: ($18) 8

, 7

, 6

(6 players)
SB bets $10, Fnord raises to $30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls $20.

Turn: ($78) 4

(2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $99.65 (All-In), SB calls $42.65 (All-In).

I kind of like this line, but:

Would you have made this play if you had put SB on a set? Or did you after he called the flop raise?

No, I didn't put him on a set. I was looking to get him to dump over-cards or a weak pair. I figured he likely had something like KK-TT and I could clean up all of my outs to flip a coin with a $15 (after rake) overlay.

The turn bet is follow-through. With more money behind I might check. Although I really didn't want to play a rivered Ace with money behind after checking the turn. Heck, given what I put him on, I kinda like a turn check, but the player was weak enough I thought I still had fold equity and felt it important to show follow-through since I hadn't been showing multiple rounds of post-flop aggression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Do you think SB would've called the a/i if he'd had more money behind? Would you with a set here?

I would have just stuck the rest in on the flop if I had his hand. Top set on the flop is a hand I like to gamble with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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