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jackvance

04-01-2006, 12:42 PM Post subject: boat on the flop

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Ok I signed in with $7, got nothing all the time, fold fold fold, so at this point I was sitting with $8 on the button, looked at my nothing hand "J5o" and I figured it was "that time" when I saw the guys before me fold.

> John_B_Good posted small blind ($0.05)
> Aajajan posted big blind ($0.10)
> Game # 742,039,627 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> 3rk0 folded
> dragget folded
> jackvance raised for $0.60

Lemme have that pot.

> hegle folded
> John_B_Good folded
> Aajajan called for $0.50
> Dealing the Flop(5s5hJs)

Didn't know what I saw.. flopped a boat on my crapola hand!

> Aajajan checked

Ok so he checked. I figured he probably didn't have anything. But with a J there, I thought he might be worried. He'd chase down a hand with MP, but not with nothing. So I was thinking, small bet to build a pot, or build his confidence while hoping that he got something on the turn to bet on.

> jackvance checked
> Dealing the turn(8c)
3rk0> they are fun but a littel to slow some times :S
> Aajajan checked

Hm. Better not bet too much, I wanna lead him on and lay it thick on the river.

> jackvance bet for $0.80
> Aajajan called for $0.80
> Dealing the river(8h)
> Aajajan bet for $1.70

Another 8 and he bets big all of a sudden? You gotta be kidding me here. A boat can't lose right? I can't let a boat go either..

> jackvance went all-in for $6.05
> Aajajan went all-in for $2
> Extra chips returned to jackvance, $2.35
> Aajajan shows a Full House, Eights full of Fives
(888•55)
> Aajajan wins $9.95 with a Full House, Eights full of Fives

Ok, I've had flushes and straights out-flushed and out-straighted, so I'm aware of those.. but somehow it wouldn't register that a full house on the flop could actually turn out to lose. Should have called probably? Or would you lay this one down?

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sejje

04-01-2006, 03:25 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 883

Bet the flop. Flat call the river as played.

Anytime I hit a trash hand, I'm definitely betting it.

midas06

04-01-2006, 03:28 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

play it fsater

bdawg56kg

04-01-2006, 07:07 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

River raise sucks. What worse hands do you think will call you?

tcpj4

04-01-2006, 08:11 PM

#5 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 109

No real point to try to steal blinds when you can just wait for AA, KK, QQ and still get paid off.

When he leads the river it pretty much says he has an 8 and you got unlucky, I would just call that.

jackvance

04-01-2006, 10:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

River raise sucks. What worse hands do you think will call you?

Yeah that was what I was thinking afterwards too.. at the turn I even thought "ah, he got an 8, so A8 or K8 prolly"

jackvance

04-02-2006, 01:36 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcpj4

No real point to try to steal blinds when you can just wait for AA, KK, QQ and still get paid off.

Yeah, if you like to sit there for hours with marginal profits, good for you. I find it better to have multiple strategies at your disposal, to make money off of different situation, than to just rely on the obvious things everyone else is relying on.

Recently I've been playing differently from before. A lot tighter on the court hands (powerhands you play for TP), I now play suited connectors and suited gappers too, but this still means less hands overall, so I add some bluffs to compensate.

The great thing about bluffs is, if you know how and when to do them (and against which opponents), then they are +EV in and of themselves. Not a lot obviously, but they are. They certainly have been for me since I've gotten better at calculating win% on bluffs. And the great thing is, even if you get caught now and then, this really makes you more of a mystery and seriously adds to the pay-off you will get when you hit.

However, if you don't know how to bluff properly, or you can't lay it down even if you know he's not buying it (or is defending a top hand), then bluffs are SERIOUSLY -EV. So tread with caution.

sejje

04-02-2006, 04:16 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 883

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

this really makes you more of a mystery and seriously adds to the pay-off you will get when you hit.

At 10NL? Come on. No, really. Come on.

What isn't a mystery to these guys?

jackvance

04-02-2006, 04:37 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Let me rephrase it then. They will start thinking "damn, this guy is bluffing", which has two effects:

- They might be tempted to start bluffing too, in very stupid and inappropriate situations, because they don't know how to bluff. One loose player can really loosen the whole table up. (which in 10NL means, makes them play even more like complete idiots)
- They will be more tempted to call my aggressive raises when I actually have a winner, because of the simple fact that it is burnt in their minds that "this guy bluffs".

Quite a pay-off for a strategy that in itself is (slightly) +EV when done right. Ofcourse bluffing is actually harder than playing a good hand. A good hand can win money easily. A good bluff can only win if you get your opponent to fold and still be up in the long run when it botches. It's especially tricky at 10NL because they might call you down with crap. But it can still be made to work.

joshuadzl

04-02-2006, 07:49 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

You're over analyzing and overplaying your current level. It seems that you may want to begin moving up.

jackvance

04-02-2006, 07:52 AM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

I need a few more days to make sure I get my "drifting" (where I start to play like crap all of a sudden because it seems so easy) under control.. but the biggest problem is that I don't even have the BR for 10NL actually, so it'd be foolish to move up. Need to build a BR first.

johnny_fish

04-02-2006, 12:32 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee

Posts: 2,186

Bet anything with value at 10NL for a week, fold everything else. Then you're rolled for 25NL, gl.

jackvance

04-02-2006, 01:00 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

For the most part that's the plan. The occasional bluff keeps the game fun. I might even flash my cards after a succesful bluff in the future.. usually has a nice effect on the table.

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

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