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Fnord
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04-05-2006, 03:53 PM
Post subject: Blind Fight vs TAgg
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Opponent is multi-tabling TAgg.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
UTG ($151.60)
UTG+1 ($96.50)
MP1 ($20.30)
MP2 ($38.50)
MP3 ($39.40)
CO ($99.40)
Button ($100.55)
Fnord ($132.45)
BB ($149.20)
Preflop: Fnord is SB with 9 , J.
7 folds, Fnord raises to $3, BB raises to $8, Fnord calls $5.
Flop: ($16) 8 , 3, T (2 players)
Fnord checks, BB bets $15, Fnord calls $15.
Turn: ($46) 4 (2 players)
Fnord checks, BB bets $50, Fnord calls $50.
River: ($146) 5 (2 players)
Fnord ???
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Check-fold if he knows enough about you to know you're not a chaser.
Otherwise, bet 100.
edit: oops, 100NL, only 60 behind. c/f.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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Do you find that people really defend their blinds that much at 100NL full? Especially a multi-tabling tagg?
What's your image?
You've got $59 left. Pot is ~150. If you push do you really think he'll lay that down? He''l be getting 3.47 : 1 on that call.
If, and I say if, he's been at your table for a long time, or you have stats from another table, and you really think he'll lay down his AA or KK when he thinks you've spiked your flush or straight, then fire away. Otherwise you're pissing away half a buyin.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
Do you find that people really defend their blinds that much at 100NL full? Especially a multi-tabling tagg?
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I raised pre-flop because I expected a fold.
Any comments on the flop call?
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
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Flop call is good. You can either hit the open ender, or represent the flush on the turn. I think pushing the turn might have been the best option here. Rep a set, and still have a flush and open ender going for you if he calls.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
I think pushing the turn might have been the best option here. Rep a set, and still have a flush and open ender going for you if he calls.
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I considered this line, then I put the entire puzzle together.
I should add, that it probably took me about 5-10 seconds to make that turn call.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Turn call is fine with 13 clean outs, although he might fold to the 7 or Q, but that gives you some bluffing outs too.
Flop call is fine with implied odds + J/9 might be outs too.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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i would fold the turn. with deeper stacks and against a good opponent, i might c/r allin.
as played, i would not bluff the river. it just seems like whenever i try to they spite call anyway.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i would fold the turn.
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Explain. I'm getting about pot odds, I don't have the obvious draw on the board, I have every reason to think he's paying off a river and there is another $70 behind.
I agree, that potting the turn really sucked for us.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I agree, that potting the turn really sucked for us.
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You mean there's no room for representing the flush at the river?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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bleh
hes putting a lot of money in with a monster or pure air.
I dont think hes folding to a river push unless he thinks your that bad.
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Warpe
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I agree, that potting the turn really sucked for us.
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You mean there's no room for representing the flush at the river? |
Villain bumps it to $8 preflop, pots the flop, and is still putting in $50 with no club on the turn...I don't think he's on the flush draw, which leaves it open for you to rep...but...
It's bluff with a push or check/fold. My cautious side says the latter, but I've got a feeling you're gambooling here...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
You mean there's no room for representing the flush at the river?
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It committed him to the pot and gave us a marginal call/fold decision.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I've got a feeling you're gambooling here...
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River went check, check
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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you beat 97s t showdown? 
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gabe
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Moderator
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hmm i change my answer. i think turn call is fine, he didn't overbet it as much as i was thinking.
did you ever considering leading the turn for $45ish ?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Would check raising that flop have done much for you? Seeing as this player is TAG, it seems like you could have better utilized your folding equity in this hand.
I wonder what c/r flop, push turn would have been like?
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
did you ever considering leading the turn for $45ish ?
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Pre-flop I figure he's pricing me into a call with something good. Maybe AK, probably TT+. AK likes to trap and be a real pussy in this game
I would almost rather lead the flop, although with 2 clubs on the board I don't think a thinking player is folding QQ+ to a bet/push line.
He follows though on the flop. Pots it, but I don't know enough about him to know if it's his standard c-bet, so I made the loose call. I'm torn between putting him on a real hand and air. Although air doesn't fit the pre-flop action.
I guess I was expecting a freebie or half pot bet on the turn, hence my check. I think leading is bad because often I'll see a check or something weak if he's got air. A real hand is calling or raising. A raise would really suck because it would be really close between call/fold for a lot of money.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Would check raising that flop have done much for you? Seeing as this player is TAG, it seems like you could have better utilized your folding equity in this hand.
I wonder what c/r flop, push turn would have been like?
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I used to play like this more often and it cost me a lot of money. The raising standard is so tight that the fold equity just isn't there. Also many of these guys will give cards, tip hands and under-bet. I think I'm better off exploiting those mistakes.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Pre-flop I figure he's pricing me into a call with something good. Maybe AK, probably TT+.
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You don't think he's capable of 3betting in position with lesser? If this was a 3bet from the small blind instead then I could see more definitively putting him on something that strong.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
You don't think he's capable of 3betting in position with lesser?
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Maybe, not likly. My read is tight multi-tabler who couldn't give a rats ass about defending his blind on table number 5 of 8 against a player who's going to give him grief. Also, consider his raise size. He's building a pot.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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is this Fnord vs Lukie III?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
is this Fnord vs Lukie III?
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This doesn't have a very Lukie feel to it. The bet amounts on every street are off.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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I would just dump this preflop. J9s just doesn't do well against a tag oop in a reraised pot. Flop play is fine by me. I would just fold the turn. If you had another $100 or so behind or if he bet something like 1/2 pot I think a cr ai should really be considered. I think c/c turn and c/f river just sucks. What was your plan when you called the psb on the turn? You have to assume the rest is going in on the river, no?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The raising standard is so tight that the fold equity just isn't there. Also many of these guys will give cards, tip hands and under-bet. I think I'm better off exploiting those mistakes.
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WTF? If the raising standard is so tight, then why are you playing this mediocre hand/draw oop against what clearly is a made hand? And I don't see how you exploited any of these mistakes you talk about.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Flop play is fine by me. I would just fold the turn.
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This seems way backwards to me.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The raising standard is so tight that the fold equity just isn't there. Also many of these guys will give cards, tip hands and under-bet. I think I'm better off exploiting those mistakes.
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WTF? If the raising standard is so tight, then why are you playing this mediocre hand/draw oop against what clearly is a made hand? And I don't see how you exploited any of these mistakes you talk about. |
He played his hand far better than I expected. Quite often I draw weaker bets. If I had something like AJo, ATo, KQo, etc. I'm more inclined to dump this pre-flop.
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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Fnord, I respect the style you describe here, and I'm fairly certain that I'd lose to you pretty good, but...
Villain has raised PF, bet the flop,PSB on the turn..if he's TAGG, what the heck makes you think he's on air? Isn't this a (big?) made hand every time?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by relayer
Villain has raised PF, bet the flop,PSB on the turn..if he's TAGG, what the heck makes you think he's on air? Isn't this a (big?) made hand every time?
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Where did I say otherwise? If I think he's on air, I'm sure as hell not check/calling the flop + turn.
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