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Bizarre hand.

  
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-05-2005, 11:48 AM     Post subject: Bizarre hand. #1 (permalink)  
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dsaxton
This is strange. What does this guy have, and is there any reason not to fold? Never seen him before.

PokerStars Game #2731314740: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/10/05 - 07:44:32 (ET)
Table 'Helma' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Bluechuff ($109.90 in chips)
Seat 2: Goldenfaith ($200 in chips)
Seat 3: JFQUICKDOG ($52.90 in chips)
Seat 4: 1Amsterdam ($93.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Wondermike ($162.95 in chips)
Seat 7: rock55 ($152 in chips)
Seat 8: dsaxton ($200 in chips)
Seat 9: FishyWhale ($200 in chips)
Wondermike: posts small blind $1
rock55: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dsaxton [Qc Ah]
dsaxton: raises $6 to $8
FishyWhale: folds
Bluechuff: calls $8
Goldenfaith: folds
JFQUICKDOG: folds
1Amsterdam: folds
Wondermike: folds
rock55: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4d 8c]
dsaxton: bets $12
Bluechuff: calls $12
*** TURN *** [Qs 4d 8c] [Kh]
dsaxton: checks
Bluechuff: bets $26
dsaxton: ???
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PokerPatNEU
Old 10-05-2005, 02:41 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Really weird hand i agree. He doesn't do anything to define his hand on the flop, smooth calls with no draw...I guess it could be KQ? Or slowplaying 88/44.

This is a move that i will make as villain on shorthanded tables against players who are continuation betting too much and i think they're full of crap. Smooth call the flop with position then see what they do on the turn. If they check or bet weak i come over. He may have been doing this to you, but since you have no reads on him i assume either you or he is new to the table so he probably doesn't have this read on you. I think its KQ and you should probably just get out. At best its a (real weird) strait draw.
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dsaxton
Old 10-05-2005, 04:10 PM #3 (permalink)  
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dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Really weird hand i agree. He doesn't do anything to define his hand on the flop, smooth calls with no draw...I guess it could be KQ? Or slowplaying 88/44.

This is a move that i will make as villain on shorthanded tables against players who are continuation betting too much and i think they're full of crap. Smooth call the flop with position then see what they do on the turn. If they check or bet weak i come over. He may have been doing this to you, but since you have no reads on him i assume either you or he is new to the table so he probably doesn't have this read on you. I think its KQ and you should probably just get out. At best its a (real weird) strait draw.
Those were the hands I thought were most likely. I also thought he might've been a fish who couldn't fold A-K on the flop.

A good counter to what's you're suggesting as a defense against the continuation bet is to bet with a legitimate hand on the flop after raising preflop, and then check-raise the turn if you're called.
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Rondavu
Old 10-05-2005, 08:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Rondavu
He probably has nothing. At this limit he's most likely bluffing the pot down. I reraise this here. Seriously. If he caught the king he's not gonna to try to make you fold. He probably checks. If he has a set he's not going to rep the K, because after your check he put you on the queen or nothing. He will SO value bet here with a set. All day long.

Let me ask you this...

What do you do when someone reps a flop OOP, gets called by you, and then just checks the turn when another over hits? I know what I do against most competent opponents. I take my pot down. Reraise him and see what he does.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-05-2005, 08:53 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
He probably has nothing. At this limit he's most likely bluffing the pot down. I reraise this here. Seriously. If he caught the king he's not gonna to try to make you fold. He probably checks. If he has a set he's not going to rep the K, because after your check he put you on the queen or nothing. He will SO value bet here with a set. All day long.

Let me ask you this...

What do you do when someone reps a flop OOP, gets called by you, and then just checks the turn when another over hits? I know what I do against most competent opponents.
So, you're suggesting he called on the flop with absolutely nothing? There's no reason to suspect he'd be willing to do that. I think the assumption should be made that he had a made hand on the flop, since there aren't any draws out.
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STIdrivr
Old 10-05-2005, 09:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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You gave him the chance to buy the pot when you showed him weakness. If you made a bet and get raised its an easy fold. You put youself in a tough position. If i were him i would bet with many hands maybe a 99 when you checked to him
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dsaxton
Old 10-05-2005, 09:19 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STIdrivr
You gave him the chance to buy the pot when you showed him weakness. If you made a bet and get raised its an easy fold. You put youself in a tough position. If i were him i would bet with many hands maybe a 99 when you checked to him
So, you're saying he "bought the pot," which implies he called with nothing on the flop. Is there any reason to think this?

I checked because K-Q was one of his likeliest calling hands on the flop.
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PokerPatNEU
Old 10-05-2005, 11:26 PM #8 (permalink)  
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PokerPatNEU
Smooth calling a raggy flop is a good bluff set up for the turn. I use it a lot against people who are raising pre flop all the time and continuing. Smooth call with position, then raise the turn. Try it on a laggy opp that you have position on, works wonders. The call then raise looks really strong too, (depending on your own image) you can get good players to lay down better hands than you'd think. The beauty about this play is that it works really well against laggy opp's and you can make it with any two cards. It's even better short handed since less players = less likely anyone hit the flop.


Edit: But i still stand by my original post for this particular hand
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DogOnMySide
Old 10-06-2005, 12:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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DogOnMySide
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Smooth calling a raggy flop is a good bluff set up for the turn. I use it a lot against people who are raising pre flop all the time and continuing. Smooth call with position, then raise the turn. Try it on a laggy opp that you have position on, works wonders.
This is true. I'm prone to a few too many continuation bets (AQ with a poor flop and poor position = half pot raise) and the better players at the table will pick up on this after a while and start to call (making me fear the slow-play) then come over the top of me on the turn.

It works because you associate it with the times when you have called or re-raised their "bluff" and been splattered my a concealed set or a weird 2-pair that he shouldn't have (by which I mean I wouldn't have) called the PFR with.
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STIdrivr
Old 10-06-2005, 05:23 PM #10 (permalink)  
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STIdrivr
Ya the old bluff call works in stakes above 100NL
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