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Big Slick - How did I do?

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Zangief

01-11-2005, 05:18 AM Post subject: Big Slick - How did I do?

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) converter

MP2 ($67.15)
MP3 ($6.95)
Hero ($9.65)
Button ($24.40)
SB ($29.65)
BB ($7.35)
UTG ($29)
UTG+1 ($7.75)
MP1 ($7.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, A

.
UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $1.35, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $1.10, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $1.10.

Flop: ($4.40) 2

, A

, 9

(4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $4.4, BB calls $4.40, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($13.20) T

(3 players)
BB bets $1.6 (All-In), Hero calls $1.60.

River: ($16.40) 8

(3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $16.40

Results in white below:
BB has Kc 8c (flush, ace high).
UTG has (flush, ace high).
Hero has Kh Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins $16.40.

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Corey

01-11-2005, 01:09 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

bad.

Even though we know the outcome. It flops 3 to the flush. Sure you make a good size bet on the flop. His all in was given a clue he probably had the flush. Unless you thought you were pot committed or something...

Corey

Zangief

01-11-2005, 02:14 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Corey, man, tough to view your posts at work because of the animation ....

Anyway, should I have bet less on the flop?

I figured I couldn't really fold for $1.60 with $13.20 already in the pot. I'd only have to be wrong 1 time in 8 for this to be awful.

How would others have handled this?

I'm really trying to figure out what I should do when a possible made hand shows up like this when I have TPTK.

If I check or bet much less than the pot, I think I am asking for a bluff at the big pot.

Or is this hand just too boring for anyone to comment on?

Please any comments would be really appreciated.

Corey

01-11-2005, 02:47 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

tptk is a good dont get me wrong but when there is a flush draw out there I think just put the other player all-in if you have him covered. Or check it. TPTK isnt pretty with a flush draw sitten out there.

And yes I do most of my post here at work and its still distracting to me. Just gotta scroll above it or below it heh...

Corey

bspahn

01-11-2005, 05:25 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

Couple things, i think it's very important to see that he calls a hefty pf raise with only Kc8c. Also, he called your raised, presumibly with something, but then checks the flop - not even a feeler bet put out. In this instance, I think a smaller bet might be more appropriate, if he raises then what conclusion can you draw?

AK is great, but can fairly easily lead to trouble, especially against str8's, flushes and any pairs.

FlyingSaucy

01-11-2005, 05:54 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

Yea, I hate getting top pair when the flop is all one suit. In general the more dangerous the board is to you, the more hands can beat you, and hence the more cautious and conservative you have to play. Sure, you don't want to get out drawn by a guy with a lone club, but at the same time you don't want to donate your stack to someone else's cause.

Zangief

01-11-2005, 06:21 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

Couple things, i think it's very important to see that he calls a hefty pf raise with only Kc8c.

Are you saying I should take note of this for the future? In this case, he is gambling in a situation where I dominate him and he hits his 0.84% (118-to-1) chance of making a flush on the flop. I guess I should try to find this guy again and hope he gambles like this against me more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

Also, he called your raised, presumibly with something, but then checks the flop - not even a feeler bet put out.

Yes, I assumed he called me with something. I thought he would probably have a pocket pair or AK, AQ, or maybe any Ax (on this loose table). If he had anything other than AA or AK, I expected to have him beat.

I don't seem to see a lot of feeler bets where I've been playing. Mostly, people either just check to the PF raiser or bet the pot into him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

In this instance, I think a smaller bet might be more appropriate, if he raises then what conclusion can you draw?

What size bet? If I bet less than 2/3 - 3/4 of the pot, I think I'm basically asking for someone to bluff at me on this obviously scary board.

Suppose I bet 1/2 the pot, but he raises me another 1/2 pot. Do I call, then check-fold on the turn when I don't improve?

I really hate to give this away, when I'm ahead against most reasonable hands.

Lucid

01-11-2005, 08:23 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 142

You have to know when to drop your big starting hands. Two callers is a borderline situation where you have to think about whether to make a bet into this kind of board. With 3 callers I would just check. With 1 caller I would bet about pot size. With two callers in your situation I think I would bet 3 dollars and then check/fold the turn. However, the bb only had a couple of dollars left to bet anyway so you might as well call his small bet.

Basically you are wagering that your cards are better than your opponents. With just top pair and a flush board with two callers you have to suspect that you might be beat. Besides, who cares if he bluffs this anyway? Let him have a couple of dollars because he will just lose it soon afterwards to loose calling stations and you can take it back from them later.

Fnord

01-11-2005, 10:04 PM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

He played it fine.

The money isn't deep enough to lay this one down. Anyone that says otherwise is either being results oriented or painting their toenails.

You can make an argument for betting half pot then laying down when the BB comes over the top, but I don't think it's a vastly better way to play this hand. Betting the pot is fine and protects your TPTK from a single club. Either way the money is shallow enough that making a laydown isn't saving you a lot and the play at this level is such that you can expect all kinds of worse hands to put all of their money into the pot.

The BB played a dogshit dominated hand for over 1/7th of his stack and out-flopped you. Good for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

FishMagician

01-11-2005, 10:26 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 206

The flop bet was too big, but in the end it wouldn't have mattered. Even with the pot a bit smaller you would have had to call the short stack's all-in. What made this hand crappy for you was that it was the short stack that had the flush. Also, I'm not sure how the UB tables are set up. Is this a $10 max buy-in table? If so ignore me. If not, I would recommend keeping your stack as large as possible.

-Fishmagician

Fnord

01-11-2005, 10:29 PM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishMagician

Is this a $10 max buy-in table? If so ignore me. If not, I would recommend keeping your stack as large as possible.

Best point made yet by someone other than myself or the original poster. You guys should be ashamed.

I'm pretty certain that UB caps the buy-in at 100x the BB. Party's 50x the BB is freakish and probably done to protect the fishies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Zangief

01-12-2005, 03:32 AM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishMagician

Is this a $10 max buy-in table? If so ignore me. If not, I would recommend keeping your stack as large as possible.

No, I could have bought in for $25. Lately, I like to buy in for $10 on these tables and sort of see what the competition is like before filling up to $25. I find it allows me to keep from tilting as much when I get the evil hands like this. It also gives me time to sort of focus and get into my poker-playing mindset.

I believe this was actually the first hand I chose to pay for on the table (after a big and small blind hand, the latter of which I folded).

Fnord

01-12-2005, 04:29 AM

#13 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zangief

I find it allows me to keep from tilting as much when I get the evil hands like this.

Hands like this are fustrating, but not evil. It's a sick joke to keep the fish playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

LeFou

01-12-2005, 02:27 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zangief

he is gambling in a situation where I dominate him and he hits his 0.84% (118-to-1) chance of making a flush on the flop.

Kinda deceptive stat there. Yes, those are his flush-on-the-flop odds. But his odds of winning are 29/70, with 1% ties.

I agree with Fnord that you played it fine. A 1/4 pot bet puts him all in with half your stack already in the middle. And you have a good hand. If MP2 had gone all-in there it might be a tough call.

Zangief

01-12-2005, 03:43 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

That's a good point - I didn't put the two hands in twodimes.net/poker until you just mentioned that. He really isn't that much of a dog pre-flop.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess this one can be closed out.

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