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Bet more perhaps?

  
 
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dsaxton
Old 06-02-2005, 01:02 AM     Post subject: Bet more perhaps? #1 (permalink)  
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dsaxton
I considered making a very large bet here on the river, maybe even an all-in bet, but I didn't want to risk not getting paid off with the nuts if by chance he suspected something, and settled on a pot-sized bet. What do you guys think?

PokerStars Game #1813574706: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/06/01 - 20:55:50 (ET)
Table 'Alcor' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: frbeaudry ($91.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Zadan ($86.20 in chips)
Seat 3: Lucky SOB36 ($51.90 in chips)
Seat 5: GG X WR ($95.35 in chips)
Seat 6: maCloud ($27.30 in chips)
Seat 7: TheSnork ($104.85 in chips)
Seat 8: dsaxton ($155.70 in chips)
Seat 9: Curtis18 ($159.05 in chips)
dsaxton: posts small blind $0.50
Curtis18: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dsaxton [Qc Th]
frbeaudry: calls $1
Zadan: folds
Lucky SOB36: folds
GG X WR: folds
maCloud: folds
TheSnork: calls $1
dsaxton: calls $0.50
Curtis18: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h 7s 9c]
dsaxton: checks
Curtis18: bets $2
frbeaudry: calls $2
TheSnork: calls $2
dsaxton: calls $2
*** TURN *** [8h 7s 9c] [Js]
dsaxton: bets $7
Curtis18: folds
frbeaudry: calls $7
TheSnork: folds
*** RIVER *** [8h 7s 9c Js] [2d]
dsaxton: bets $25
frbeaudry: calls $25
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dsaxton: shows [Qc Th] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
frbeaudry: shows [Ts Kh] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
dsaxton collected $73 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $76 | Rake $3
Board [8h 7s 9c Js 2d]
Seat 1: frbeaudry showed [Ts Kh] and lost with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 2: Zadan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Lucky SOB36 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: GG X WR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: maCloud folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TheSnork (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 8: dsaxton (small blind) showed [Qc Th] and won ($73) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 9: Curtis18 (big blind) folded on the Turn
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sejje
Old 06-02-2005, 01:11 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If you thought he had the straight, I'd push there every time.

I've been pushing some hands too hard lately, though, and probably not getting enough out of them. So I'm right in your boat, I'd like to hear other opinions.

I think most weak hands aren't going to call the pot either, so I'd probably push it anyway. Plus, I like pushing the nuts.
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BobbySalami
Old 06-02-2005, 01:16 AM #3 (permalink)  
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On hands like that (speaking from experience)....if he is an unaware player he might not even realize that is hand is not the nuts......He may just think that you are trying to buy the pot with the same hand.

I say if you move AI in a situation like that every time it will benefit in the long run.....maybe not AI, but at least a larger bet. Geuss it depends on your reads on him.

That would be a tough hand to let go in his position.......plus anything less and he will fold to any bet IMO.
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dsaxton
Old 06-02-2005, 01:37 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
On hands like that (speaking from experience)....if he is an unaware player he might not even realize that is hand is not the nuts......He may just think that you are trying to buy the pot with the same hand.

I say if you move AI in a situation like that every time it will benefit in the long run.....maybe not AI, but at least a larger bet. Geuss it depends on your reads on him.

That would be a tough hand to let go in his position.......plus anything less and he will fold to any bet IMO.
Yeah, I played the river under the assumption that he had the straight since I was going to make the most profit from a straight, and hardly any from any other hand.
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PokerPatNEU
Old 06-02-2005, 01:41 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
On hands like that (speaking from experience)....if he is an unaware player he might not even realize that is hand is not the nuts......He may just think that you are trying to buy the pot with the same hand.

If he didn't realize it wasn't the nuts i'd expect to see a raise from him on the turn when the J falls...The only way i think he'd have called more than that pot size-ish bet, would be if you made a ridiculously big bet that looks like a steal. And thats risky. That bet looks good to me *shrug*.
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FishMagician
Old 06-02-2005, 01:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
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dsaxton
Old 06-02-2005, 02:05 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMagician
If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
Looking back, I think I should have put him all-in. I doubt he was capable of folding the second nuts.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-02-2005, 02:08 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMagician
If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
Looking back, I think I should have put him all-in. I doubt he was capable of folding the second nuts.
Um, did you know he had the second nuts?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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dsaxton
Old 06-02-2005, 02:16 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMagician
If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
Looking back, I think I should have put him all-in. I doubt he was capable of folding the second nuts.
Um, did you know he had the second nuts?

-'rilla
I never "know" what my opponent has. I just make probable guesses.

Does it matter, anyways? Obviously you should play the river under the assumption that he has the second nuts.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-02-2005, 02:19 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMagician
If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
Looking back, I think I should have put him all-in. I doubt he was capable of folding the second nuts.
Um, did you know he had the second nuts?

-'rilla
I never "know" what my opponent has. I just make probable guesses.

Does it matter, anyways? Obviously you should play the river under the assumption that he has the second nuts.
He may get away from two pair for an AI.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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BobbySalami
Old 06-02-2005, 02:20 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
On hands like that (speaking from experience)....if he is an unaware player he might not even realize that is hand is not the nuts......He may just think that you are trying to buy the pot with the same hand.

If he didn't realize it wasn't the nuts i'd expect to see a raise from him on the turn when the J falls...The only way i think he'd have called more than that pot size-ish bet, would be if you made a ridiculously big bet that looks like a steal. And thats risky. That bet looks good to me *shrug*.
Not necessarily.....(Again speaking from the unaware players point of view....) If the board looks like that and you dont even realize you dont have the nuts but think you do.......it is very possible that you will just call that be instead of a re-raise in an effort to not feed the rake.

However, if he is an aware player that is different, I'm just giving the example from a newb's shoes....and depending on reads, this could give some insight.

EDIT:....Misread how the hand played out........thought the J was on the river......N/M. But I think my point still has some value.
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dsaxton
Old 06-02-2005, 02:29 AM #12 (permalink)  
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dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMagician
If you push, he only needs to call 1 out of 3 times for it to be more profitable. I say push.
Looking back, I think I should have put him all-in. I doubt he was capable of folding the second nuts.
Um, did you know he had the second nuts?

-'rilla
I never "know" what my opponent has. I just make probable guesses.

Does it matter, anyways? Obviously you should play the river under the assumption that he has the second nuts.
He may get away from two pair for an AI.

-'rilla
I'm not worried about scaring him away if he has two pair. The idea is that the only hand he is willing to commit much money with here is a straight, so I should bet the maximum amount that he would be willing to call with a straight (since he isn't going to raise), and forego the opportunity of winning a little extra from any other hand. I'm taking a small risk of losing some additional profit from weaker hands in favor of winning a lot more from a stronger hand, which is clearly a winning trade-off.
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DimitriT
Old 06-02-2005, 01:45 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I think it depends who you are playing against and how they have reacted to your bets so far. If this is a super loose tilting plr, push hard. If he's a tight wad who doesn't call a $1 raise on the flop, pushing will cost you. Also think about your table image the last few hands. Have they caught you bluffing recently? The best scenario is to come up against a bluffing maniac and have him do the push.
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