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bad semi bluff and AA OOP line?

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benny999

05-10-2006, 10:39 PM Post subject: bad semi bluff and AA OOP line?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

My main question - is it worth pulling semi bluffs like this to get a free card and possibly a fold and some info when you read the OPP as loose/passive?

The table was passive overall. I'd only seen a few hands on SB, and he seemed loose/passive but I wasn't sure of that. On the flop, I figured I had 12 outs and that if he called a min raise he'd have mid or top pair and check the turn. If he 3-bet the flop, I'd fold unless I had pot odds. My plan for the turn was to check behind, but I got greedy thinking he might have 3rd or 4th pair so I took a shot at folding him. Bad idea and/or too small of a bet?

It did end up bloating the pot for the perfect river (where I accidentally left him around 30 cents). Although around 3/4 of the time I'd come up blank on the river and probably lose. That's what gets me on this hand even though it worked out this time.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($24.50)
UTG ($21.82)
Hero ($51.62)
CO ($24.14)
Button ($24.87)
SB ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 2

, A

. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 6

, 4

, J

(4 players)
SB bets $1, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.

Turn: ($5) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3.

River: ($11) T

(2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $18.61, SB calls $13.61.

Final Pot: $48.22

No reads here. I hate these spots with an overpair and getting cold called everywhere, especially on this board. What would you do here? I shoulda folded on the river, right?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($33.60)
MP2 ($56.70)
CO ($4.20)
Button ($24)
SB ($15.95)
BB ($6.05)
UTG ($29.35)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A

, A

. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, Button calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) 5

, 2

, 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $2, Button calls $2.

Turn: ($6.35) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3.

River: ($12.35) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $8, Hero calls $5.

Final Pot: $28.35

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Lodogg

05-10-2006, 11:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Stealing your C-bet

Posts: 199

Why not check the turn? Didn't you raise the flop to get a free card on 4th street?

jackvance

05-11-2006, 12:04 AM Post subject: Re: bad semi bluff and AA OOP line?

#3 (permalink)

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jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

My main question - is it worth pulling semi bluffs like this to get a free card and possibly a fold and some info when you read the OPP as loose/passive?

Eh, the card was already free if you checked behind. If you bet there, you try to steal the pot.. but not a good move here imo. He bet bet the pot on the flop and your raise put him in check/call mode.. no point in trying to bluff him out when he isn't going to fold most likely (as he has a hand probably). It worked out b/c your 1/6 chance for a flush came through, but in general you should take your free card here.

Quote:

No reads here. I hate these spots with an overpair and getting cold called everywhere, especially on this board. What would you do here? I shoulda folded on the river, right?

Yeah I hate these too. When they raise the river you pretty much know you are beat. I mean, you bet close to the pot on the flop.. what is he going to call that with on this board right? Crying call or fold.

benny999

05-11-2006, 01:26 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,567

I noticed I get greedy on a lot of turns and try to fold them if a c-bet or semi-bluff gets called and then checked to me again heads up. Yea - this has to be a leak!

hmmm, the second hand...still not sure what a better line would be. Gotta bet the flop, right? He could have a weaker pair, an OESD, or hes bluffing syndrome with AJ+ (Ive seen that quite a bit). But then what on the turn? I usually do a 1/2 pot bet to try to manage the pot.

At the river there's pretty much 1-2 hands (QQ or AJ) I beat, and a bunch that kill me. I think a check and calling a small bet on the river wouldve been better. But would anyone check the turn or maybe even the flop?

jackvance

05-11-2006, 11:42 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,910

Checking the flop really isn't an option. I mean, think clearly instead of results-oriented.. you are holding AA and the flop is all rags, and you are considering a check?!

The problem I see with your line here is that you bet a bit much on the flop. There's no flush draw, not too big of a chance of a straight draw - unless he just so happens to have called you with 34s/56s, which you can ignore for all practical purposes. The flop really just is all rags. Betting it as high as you do is a great way to fold out all the hands that you beat - but more importantly, build a big pot for the sethunters!

Bet $1.2 here.. it'll make it easier to step out on later turns if you sense you are beat, plus your bet is weak enough so that maybe AK or something will tag along b/c he thinks it's your obligatory c-bet.. or 77 will think his hand might be good, etc.

midas06

05-11-2006, 12:10 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Hand 1: Raise 3x/4x instead of a minraise, and take the free card

benny999

05-11-2006, 03:22 PM

#7 (permalink)

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In hand 1, I thought I was a coinflip and would get called with a 2x or 4x raise the same, but in general I think you're right, I need to add credibility that I'm not drawing and fold equity instead of min raising, and then if I do take a shot at the turn (which I shouldn't with no solid reads), I'll have much more fold equity.

For hand 2, checking the flop would have been worse despite the chance of keeping the pot smaller. Good point...betting like 1/2 pot on flop/turn would've been a better play on this board. And definitely check/calling small bets on the river...turned out to be a suckout with JJ but easily coulda been a flopped set.

jackvance

05-11-2006, 03:40 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

In hand 1, I thought I was a coinflip and would get called with a 2x or 4x raise the same

Indeed, minraise was fine here imo. Otherwise I would have mentionned it too

I woulda made it $3 though I think.

Quote:

betting like 1/2 pot on flop/turn would've been a better play on this board

Well, a tad more, but yeah that's the idea. There's no draw that you want to price here, or no strong TPTK that might want to give you his stack (like AQ on a Q-high flop) so I'd keep it calm here. What happened here is basically what you are looking for.. underpair tagging along. The fact that he sucked out on you is a bad beat of sorts, don't worry about that.

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bad semi bluff and AA OOP line?

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