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Arrrgh... shoulda pushed the flop??

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lowBoy

11-07-2005, 06:04 PM Post subject: Arrrgh... shoulda pushed the flop??

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

No reads on opp - at the table for 5 hands.

Stage #220789806: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2005-11-07 13:53:42 (ET)
Table: DAFFODIL AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - ZMASTER8 ($53.85 in chips)
Seat 7 - MILK MONEY ($38.30 in chips)
Seat 8 - MATTWILLIS ($45.50 in chips)
Seat 9 - TRUEJESTER ($13.35 in chips)
Seat 1 - ZAXSAN ($41.05 in chips)
Seat 2 - GTH826A ($36.65 in chips)
Seat 3 - PAPPA60 ($33.95 in chips)
Seat 4 - BUNTYMCCRUMP ($196.50 in chips)
Seat 5 - EZTURBO2 ($85.15 in chips)
MILK MONEY - Posts small blind $0.50
MATTWILLIS - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BUNTYMCCRUMP [As Ah]
TRUEJESTER - Folds
ZAXSAN - Folds
GTH826A - Folds
PAPPA60 - Calls $1
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Raises $4 to $4
EZTURBO2 - Folds
ZMASTER8 - Folds
MILK MONEY - Folds
MATTWILLIS - Folds
PAPPA60 - Calls $3
*** FLOP *** [Ac Kc 10c]
PAPPA60 - Bets $3
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Raises $10 to $10
PAPPA60 - Calls $7
*** TURN *** [Ac Kc 10c] [9c]
PAPPA60 - Bets $4
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Calls $4
*** RIVER *** [Ac Kc 10c 9c] [6c]
PAPPA60 - All-In $15.95
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Folds

Is this the kind of place that you should push the flop and be happy with getting $7 or a flush draw to call?? Stacks aren't too deep here.

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Fnord

11-07-2005, 06:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Tough hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mxiu

11-07-2005, 06:29 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

I push this flop.

Fnord

11-07-2005, 06:31 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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~$9 in the pot.
$3 bet into us.
Our call makes it $3 more for a total of 15.
Raise should be to $18 flat

Put the rest in on the turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lowBoy

11-07-2005, 07:09 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

Are we just covering our ass when we do that? It seems like -EV for our opp to call our flop bet if he was on a flush draw with just the $10 bet. But if he had AxQc or something, he'd probably call outside of his odds.

Implied odds are a small factor, as he's not getting much more of my money on a 4 flush board.

Fnord

11-07-2005, 08:08 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowBoy

Are we just covering our ass when we do that? It seems like -EV for our opp to call our flop bet if he was on a flush draw with just the $10 bet.

Does $10 cover us? Do the math.

Also, I like making my decisions simple and my opponent's decisions difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowBoy

Implied odds are a small factor, as he's not getting much more of my money on a 4 flush board.

Why let him take over the hand. Get it in on the flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lowBoy

11-07-2005, 08:27 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

$15 with our $3 call,
$10 bet makes it a $22 pot,
He calls $7 into a $22 pot for a flush draw on the turn.
3:1 pot odds on a 4:1 shot.

Did I get that wrong? Like I said, I didn't account for implied odds because I would have probably dropped the hand after any more than a $4 on the turn.

Agreed that decisions are best left to our opponents, and taking charge of the hand is good.

Fnord

11-07-2005, 08:32 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowBoy

3:1 pot odds on a 4:1 shot.

Did I get that wrong? Like I said, I didn't account for implied odds because I would have probably dropped the hand after any more than a $4 on the turn.

If you pay a penny more, there are implied odds. You have to pay some amount if it hits on the turn because you have outs and might still have the best hand.

I want to take this hand to showdown with really easy decisions if possible.

I can only see raising less than $12 here if I think I can provoke a 3-bet. But this just looks like a spot where all the money is going in, so I may as well get it in when I'm 90% certain I have the best hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lowBoy

11-07-2005, 09:07 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

That's true, I guess I can't discount the implied odds here. Thanks for the rundown.

Lesson learned: don't be fucking greedy.

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Arrrgh... shoulda pushed the flop??

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