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03-02-2009, 01:41 AM
Post subject: AQ played passive in the blind
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#1 (permalink)
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I felt pretty meh about this hand... do we think this is ok?
EDIT: villain 15/10/3.5 28% steal over 300 hands
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($48.35)
Button ($27.80)
Hero (SB) ($112.50)
BB ($110.30)
UTG ($100)
MP1 ($20.50)
MP2 ($65.45)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , A
3 folds, CO bets $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 1 fold
Flop: ($7) 8 , A , 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4, Hero calls $4
Turn: ($15) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero calls $9
River: ($33) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $18, Hero calls $18
Total pot: $69
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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stats? seems pretty standard
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Not really much else you could do
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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28 steal makes this an easy c/c to the river
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yuenjai
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 43
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i probably 3 bet pf
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yuenjai24 @ pokerstars
look for the pineapple.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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I think 3b pre is a mistake because you fold most hands that you dominate and his calling range likely is ahead of AQ, obviously villain's fold to 3b stat would be helpful
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fold to 3bet obv not significant over 300 hands
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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If you aren't willing to get it in pre with this hand, then don't 3bet. If you think that you are ahead then fine. But, I think that 3betting AQs against a 15/10 would be suicide and a waste regardless of position. Depending upon the player, I'm normally 3beting if I'm bluffing or when I'm OK with getting it in preflop. Call and see a flop and play it as you did.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Im_new
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,055
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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++++1
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Can you explain further as to why it would be better to 3bet/fold to a 4bet with AQs? I would think that we are losing value with this hand and would want to see a flop instead of turning the hand into a bluff.
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because he will flat call a lot of the time and AQs is ok with that happening
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w272727
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19
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i doubt he triple barreled bluffed here..if he did he is an idiot, i think he prob has AK in which case a 3bet would be bad with AQ...not considering table dynamics i think this play is generally fine..
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprayed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Can you explain further as to why it would be better to 3bet/fold to a 4bet with AQs? I would think that we are losing value with this hand and would want to see a flop instead of turning the hand into a bluff. |
3betting here is NOT as "bluff" as AQs is *definitely* ahead of a CO or button range. However, just because you're ahead PF doesn't mean you outflop him post-flop.
We 3bet because:
1) Initiative. We 3bet OOP here because we take initiative from CO
2) We have a hand that doesn't flop well about 2/3 the time.
3) Villain will fold a lot on flop with the best hand if we 3bet. So we increase the pot size and increase our chance of taking it down.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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It doesn't matter whether we are ahead of his opening range or not. It is a bluff if he is only continuing with better (which is possible esp. if he's a 24 tabling nitreg).
Calling is def an option also, although @ sprayed - note we are OOP here.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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we're really talking shades of grey here badgers, i think we're on the same page
if he is ONLY continuing with top 2% of hands well we just 3bet our garbage and flat our premiums. Anyway good point that 3betting here is opponent dependant. I'll call a lot in these types of spots, it's not an auto 3bet.
I didn't mean that this is NEVER a bluff vs. the right opponent, but that it shouldn't be just thought of as a "3b bluff" but as "part of your 3betting range" which vs. some villains will be only be called by better, and others call much wider. We 3b based on opponent.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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yes you're right but I think it's important to make the clarification that it is his calling range that is important. To take it to an extreme, shoving with AT here would be a bluff even though it is ahead of his opening range.But yes I am being deeply pedantic. 
Calling and 3betting are both options but I would lean towards calling without history or detailed stats...
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 903
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!!
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[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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I understand and agree that it is player dependent and I would 3bet a lagtard and be happy to get it in. However, against this guy, there's no way that I'm going to 3bet AQs because I don't want to get it in preflop against his range. I would think that I'm wasting the value of this hand against his range if I 3bet/fold. To me this seems like I'm turning the hand into a bluff. Also, 28% steal is not that out of line.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reDZill4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!! |
What the hell makes you think I'd ever fold an ace to you
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 903
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reDZill4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
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Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!! |
What the hell makes you think I'd ever fold an ace to you |
My powerful all-in betsizing! 
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[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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BankItDrew
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