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AQ, A on flop, how is this line?

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taipan168

02-17-2007, 11:50 AM Post subject: AQ, A on flop, how is this line?

#1 (permalink)

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Opp's HUD stats were about 23/14/2.5. How is this line? Check behind on the river or value bet?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $16.25
UTG+1: $39.60
MP1: $27.95
MP2: $11.10
Hero: $26.05
CO: $22
Button: $8.25
SB: $13.65
BB: $34

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with A

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises to $1, MP2 folds, Hero calls, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 3

($3.35, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $2, Hero raises to $5, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: 9

($13.35, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: 5

($13.35, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $4

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zook

02-17-2007, 05:03 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I re-raise this a lot pre-flop, but calling's fine too. I probably flat call flop because you're wa/wb. Your raise is really small (less than 1/2 pot) but given your hand and the lack of draws I guess that's not too bad. Turn check behind I like, but I value bet river for more, maybe $9.

Miffed22001

02-17-2007, 07:00 PM

#3 (permalink)

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i call on the flop. WA/WB type spot. Also, i like a reraise preflop because *OMG* its sooted!

Warpe

02-17-2007, 07:26 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I like a reraise pre 'cause it should be frickin standard in position. Whole hand plays differently then. As played, call flop, valuebet river.

taipan168

02-18-2007, 05:15 AM

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Can somebody talk me through the logic of re-raising preflop then just flat calling on the flop when the A comes?

zook

02-18-2007, 08:15 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

Can somebody talk me through the logic of re-raising preflop then just flat calling on the flop when the A comes?

If you re-raised pre-flop you wouldn't flat call the flop. It would play differently. As played, you should flat call the flop.

Vi-Zer0Skill

02-18-2007, 08:47 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Here is the logic for reraising PF:

When you reraise, you show more strength than calling. This also limits the number of hands that you will be playing against on the flop (i think villan would've folded his A-J PF has you reraised and you wouldn't have made as much $, but let's not get "results oriented"

) \. Therefore villan has less hands he would call with PF and when he bets the flop you have a clearer picture of what he is holding. For example, if you had reraised to $4-$5 PF, gotten called and villan still led out on the flop it would be much more likely he was holding A-K and make it easier to let go of the hand on the flop for the $4-$5 you spent PF than calling 3 bets (probably costing more than $5) to get to a showdown.

Since you usually need to reraise the flop after you just calling preflop, there aren't really many hands that are giving you more than a value bet somewhere later in the hand that you beat. Hands that beat you are better disguised by villan's wider range of hands since you failed to define it by raising PF. You compensated slightly by reraising the flop, but it also should've costed more if you made a slightly more standard reraise, another reason i would advocate a PF reraise.

A less long winded answer; reraising PF is a less expensive way of defining your opponent's hand than waiting until the pot is bigger on a later street to define it.

Miffed22001

02-18-2007, 11:46 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

Can somebody talk me through the logic of re-raising preflop then just flat calling on the flop when the A comes?

check opps stats.
Also, it puts pressure on weak players using position and aggression, who will also take predictable lines with bigger hands.
Isolation.

swiggidy

02-18-2007, 04:03 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

Can somebody talk me through the logic of re-raising preflop then just flat calling on the flop when the A comes?

If you re-raised pre-flop you wouldn't flat call the flop. It would play differently. As played, you should flat call the flop.

... because villain has TT, AK, AT, A3, 33 and we don't want to inflate the pot. Or he has AJ, weaker Ax, JT, KT and we don't want to blow him out of the pot. It's also good for balance as he won't instantly put you on a draw when you call flop bets (assuming he pays attention).

Yes value bet river, but bet more. Sklansky said "When deciding between two value bets on the river the larger is usually better" or something like that. Having $4 called 80% of the time is the same as having $8 called 40% of the time. Any A is calling either of those bets.

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Da GOAT

02-18-2007, 05:40 PM

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nice posting guys.

one question springs to mind.

taking advised line of calling flop when you have already called preflop, whats your plan on turn should opp bet again????

id almost never take this line coz i wudnt know where we are. i do RR PF, if not i wud raise flop. also these lines help me control turn most times. calling flop c/b's dont help me on turn with TP

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Warpe

02-18-2007, 06:35 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

taking advised line of calling flop when you have already called preflop, whats your plan on turn should opp bet again????

Call or fold depending on bet sizing, what we think of villain.

Da GOAT

02-18-2007, 07:04 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

taking advised line of calling flop when you have already called preflop, whats your plan on turn should opp bet again????

Call or fold depending on bet sizing, what we think of villain.

i thought so but i just dont like it. calling down i feel here should only be done against aggro opp while the board aint too dangerous!!

calling turn based on size of bets (just thinking here) seems weak still. Big bet we fold, 1/2 pot we call yet action on river could cost more. i taken it as we never raise turn or river and we never improve (of course this aint exact but i think its ok to assume here)

im justing thinking out loud if this is obv. i guess this is a rare line as opposed to lines recommended above

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gingerwizard

02-19-2007, 08:25 AM

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Do we play AQo the same or do we flat call with it? (Having real problems with that hand atm)

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zook

02-19-2007, 04:51 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

Do we play AQo the same or do we flat call with it? (Having real problems with that hand atm)

Against a 14% raiser, my re-raise range is wide, definitely including AQo.

BankItDrew

02-19-2007, 06:40 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Re-raise preflop. Why? Because we are only dominated against AA, KK, QQ, AK. Aggressive poker is winning poker, so represent your big hand. By raising, you can also find out sooner wether or not villain has one of these better hands, which means you'll loose less if you hit top pair.

If you call, you are slowplaying ace high.

Post flop, I like the line.

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Beck

02-23-2007, 05:21 AM

#16 (permalink)

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As played post flop, I like the turn, I say bet atleast 1/2 pot for value, maybe more.

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AQ, A on flop, how is this line?

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