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Micro2Macro
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01-20-2009, 12:57 AM
Post subject: Am I spewing on the pair+draw here? (50NL)
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#1 (permalink)
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Villian was 42/7/8.3. A few passive calling stations in play who won't bet so I lead out here hoping to build a pot. I felt like I had to get it in on the turn here. I figured my opponent had some type of top pair hand given his flop raise and his range of limping on the button with T9+ type hands. Anyway here is the hand:
Output for Format: flopturnriver to Copy/Paste From 2009-01-19 20:50:01
FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Absolute/UB Cereus Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($35.83)
Hero (SB) ($50.50)
BB ($27.65)
UTG ($55.42)
UTG+1 ($125.36)
MP1 ($28.32)
MP2 ($19.65)
CO ($50.81)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , 9
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.25, BB checks
Flop: ($2.50) 10, 4 , 6 (5 players)
Hero bets $1, 3 folds, Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2
Turn: ($8.50) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $7.25, Hero raises to $20, Button raises to $32.33 (All-In), Hero calls $12.33
River: ($73.16) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $73.16 | Rake: $3.50
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Quote:
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there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.
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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.
On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast.
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Yes, it's spew. Flat turn.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
Yes, it's spew. Flat turn.
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And then I suppose shove river if flush completes otherwise c/f?
I have to rely on implied odds for the river though, which I don't think is too much of a problem with this guy, but it would be a tough spot if the board paired and gave me the flush.
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only 1 card (4s) does that, I wouldn't sweat it for now. And I'd probably go for a smaller vbet that trips/2p will be tempted to call, I mean after flatting the turn you look like exactly what you have, the A high FD.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Quote:
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there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.
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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.
On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast. |
fold equity? what better hand do you expect him to fold? a turn check shove would be certainly be a value bet
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
only 1 card (4s) does that, I wouldn't sweat it for now. And I'd probably go for a smaller vbet that trips/2p will be tempted to call, I mean after flatting the turn you look like exactly what you have, the A high FD.
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That's exactly why I hate flatting the turn here oop.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Quote:
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there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.
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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.
On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast. |
fold equity? what better hand do you expect him to fold? a turn check shove would be certainly be a value bet |
I suppose the only hands would be AJ-AK. He may have limped AJ and just bluff raised me on the flop to set up a play on the turn, but that's the only hand that would fit that picture as I can't see him limping AQ-AK on the button.
You make a good point about the shove being for value. Plus the shove looks more like a bluff than trying to milk the pot imo, so I guess the opponent may be more likely to stack off here lighter.
What's your opinion on flatting the turn here? (I hate that line since my hand plays face up)
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a) a guy with this stats is never folding a strong ace once he hits it on the turn, ever.
b) AJ is a microscopic portion of his range and you are leveling yourself
c) who cares if it's face up, you're against a donk, again you are leveling yourself
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
a) a guy with this stats is never folding a strong ace once he hits it on the turn, ever.
b) AJ is a microscopic portion of his range and you are leveling yourself
c) who cares if it's face up, you're against a donk, again you are leveling yourself
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ya true, he's not folding his pair if I hit the flush. how big of a bet would I be looking to check call the river with though if the flush missed since I still have the ace?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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not that i necessarily agree with our hand being obvious, but hypothetically it doesnt really matter that our hand is face-up if the other ways to play the hand are really bad. all that it means is that you will have to *gasp* make a read on your opponent on the river if he bets. if you are afraid of this spot then you probably shouldnt be playing poker.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
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not that i necessarily agree with our hand being obvious, but hypothetically it doesnt really matter that our hand is face-up if the other ways to play the hand are really bad. all that it means is that you will have to *gasp* make a read on your opponent on the river if he bets. if you are afraid of this spot then you probably shouldnt be playing poker.
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It's not that I 'fear' this spot. Check calling the turn and river just seems weak (which is obviously why I took a more aggressive line). Would you say shoving the turn is better than c/c turn, c/c river here though?
If I flat call the turn I'm almost certainly calling the river because if he's trying to bet me out of a flush draw my ace is probably good against that range. The only card I could see c/f'ing to on river if I took the more passive line would be a 10.
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