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Robert
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09-25-2005, 12:20 AM
Post subject: Ace rag suited
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Since I started playing NL 25 I have always limped Ace-rag-suited from MP and LP hoping to flop a flushdraw or a made flush. But when I think about it, I think this is a leak in my game, because I'm pissing away a lot of my chips in the long run with these hands, and I dont seem to get enough in return when I hit to make up for all the money I piss away by limping.
Thoughts?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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It is a leak in your game. Flush draws are sometimes the most transparent and 3 flush boards scare a lot of action away.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Oki, thought so as well. Thanks for confirming what I already suspected rilla. Now I'm gonna stop going in it with ace rag suited, which will also prevent me from endning in ugly situations with TPWK
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Whats your thought on limping suited connectors from LP - thats gotta bet +ev or what? (not from my experience this far, but I've only played 6k hands, so my sample size is tiny). Or should one stay away from them when nut-peddling lowlimit (NL 25)?
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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A-rag hands are sucker hands in no-limit, particularly in cash games where hand values go from gold to dirt very fast.
I'd call a raise with 23s before A3s any day of the week
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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Ax suited is the favorite hand of a fish
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Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
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edudlive
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 623
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I'll play them on the button, SB, or BB but unless its kicker is 8 or higher, I won't play for the ace (6max)
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(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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At $25 NL you should just camp for monsters, and A-x almost never becomes a monster, and when it does, it's hard to get any action unless you're lucky enough to be up against a smaller flush.
At $100 and $200 NL, I sometimes like to raise these hands and bet any flop, which I think is favorable to trying to limp in and flop something. If I do happen to flop a flush draw, then my hand will be fairly well disguised if I hit my flush, and I'll win more since I've been building the pot. If an ace flops, than it's likely I'm the only player with top pair, but if I'm getting action I'll usually slow down.
Plus, since I have an ace in my hand, it's slightly less likely my opponents have playable starting hands, and so I'm more likely to just win the blinds.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Playing ace-rag was a bad leak in my game, too, so I stopped playing it for a while. But after watching way too many hands won with TP by players holding A20, A3o etc., or watching people catch a flush with the nut, I gave it a rethink (tough to watch the pot go to a worse hand than yours). Now I limp in with it from the blinds, late position and even any position if there's no consistent pre-flop raisers at the table. First sign of a solid raise though and I'm usually gone, depending...(it always depends, doesn't it).
If I hit TP on the flop, then I'll either check it around to see if anybody bets it, or put out a small bet for info if nobody does. If I make someone else for an ace with a (probably) better kicker, then I'm usually outta there. But if not...
Catching a 4-flush on the flop goes without saying, or even a 3 if I can get a free look.
I'll also often bet a junk flop holding the ace if I'm near to last to act and try to make a steal. I think that in itself pays for the flops that don't pan out.
This may very well still be a leak in my game (need Poker Tracker), but I'm fairly sure it isn't, and I won't play this way in tourney or on a tough table . But, IMHO, I think the trade-off of folding it down after paying a little to see the flop as opposed to not playing it all and watching someone else take down the pot with worse is worth it, psychologically if nothing else. At least ya know ya gave it a shot.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Axs is a profitable hand for me AS LONG AS I have position, am aware of the aggression level of my table and I am prepared to lay it down if I don't hit a flush draw or two pair at least.
At £25NL there are easily enough fish for it to be hugely profitable from time to time. Just make sure you don't put yourself in a position where you lose too much money chasing with it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
A-rag hands are sucker hands in no-limit, particularly in cash games where hand values go from gold to dirt very fast.
I'd call a raise with 23s before A3s any day of the week
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The ONLY benefit of 23s is it has better straight potential - it can make a nut straight and it can make a 6 high straight. That doesn't compensate for the times when you need a high kicker - flush vs. flush or trips treys vs. trip treys.
I guarantee A3s is a more profitable hand in the long run, even if it does suck.
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Ivory
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 117
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if your going to play ax suited then a2,a3,a4,a5 and start again at a10,aj,aq,ak, as these all give straight AND flush possibilities. anything inbetween is asking for trouble, ax low for straights and flush and ax high for pairs, straights and flushes.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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I play 6 max so Ax suited is playable to me.
If im playing though im coming in behind a raise and repping any face card A,K,Q simply because i play most raised hands in that fashion.
In full ring im not playing unless i think ill get an oppertunity to see a cheap flop.
Im not so convinced that Ax suited cant become a monster you may just have to try and bet out any flush draws in the hope of catching and keeping some other weaker hands in the pot by making it tough to read your hand.
Otherwise if your simply going to call preflop and then call bets post flop on the draw it will become to easy to read what hand you are playing (assuming anyone is paying attention at 25nl of course)
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
A-rag hands are sucker hands in no-limit, particularly in cash games where hand values go from gold to dirt very fast.
I'd call a raise with 23s before A3s any day of the week
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The ONLY benefit of 23s is it has better straight potential - it can make a nut straight and it can make a 6 high straight. That doesn't compensate for the times when you need a high kicker - flush vs. flush or trips treys vs. trip treys.
I guarantee A3s is a more profitable hand in the long run, even if it does suck. |
You're forgetting about the tendancy not to fold Ax when an ace hits and you're outkicked.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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A4s is the best of the wheel hands.
If you have A5 and the flop is 234 in a multi-way pot, I feel a little nauseous if bet into (plenty of people play 65), whereas 352 is a pretty secure flop for A4.
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