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martindcx1e
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10-28-2006, 06:29 PM
Post subject: AA vs. min-donk/re-raise on flop
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Should this be a routine fold?
50NL
New to table
Hero is UTG+1 ($50) with  
Villain is SB and covers
Pre-Flop
UTG limps .50
Hero raises to $2.50
SB calls $2.50
UTG folds
Flop (2 Players, Pot = $6)
  
SB bets .50
Hero raises to $7
SB raises to $13.50
Hero ?
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Call it and evaluate turn.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dislexsik
Call it and evaluate turn.
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If you call then the pot will be $33 on the turn. Assume the turn card changes nothing. You will have $34 left. What do you do if he checks? What do you do if he bets 1/2 pot? If he pushes?
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Dislexsik
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Full House
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dislexsik
Call it and evaluate turn.
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If you call then the pot will be $33 on the turn. Assume the turn card changes nothing. You will have $34 left. What do you do if he checks? What do you do if he bets 1/2 pot? If he pushes? |
If he checks i check behind, if he bets 1/2 of the pot i call.If he pushes i fold.
Just try to see the showdown cheap.
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Muzzard
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Push, whats beating you? pocket 3/4/10's.. JJ+ are paying you off as is anything else
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Push, whats beating you? pocket 3/4/10's.. JJ+ are paying you off as is anything else
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pushing might be the worst option. what kind of hands take villain's line? put him on a range.
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mcatdog
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This is often just a ten that doesn't believe you.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
This is often just a ten that doesn't believe you.
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are you serious? you see that play that often?
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Dislexsik
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Full House
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The flop doesn't really look dangerous without many draws and he called from the SB.Im not pushing this.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Push, whats beating you? pocket 3/4/10's.. JJ+ are paying you off as is anything else
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What hands are you expecting beat? What worse hands are you expecting to call?
Throw the ev right out the window with this. We arent looking to pay the set against such a scary line.
FWIW, mcatdog is onto something in that it may simply be AT or some passive with JJ/QQ. But, i also dont think folding is a bad option considering we know from previous experience the minbet/3bet line = monster, even from an unknown or known fish.
Its a donkish play really, from someone who is going to get stacked playing like this soon enough anyway IMO, so folding and finding a better spot is not horrible, even if it is *only* the rock infested 50nl and we have AA.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Push, you just sat down so even if you lose and they should see you as a fish you should win this back easily. You are probably a 3/2 favorite. I also think he might have junk like A5/A2 for the over + gutshot...
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Push, whats beating you? pocket 3/4/10's.. JJ+ are paying you off as is anything else
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
Push, you just sat down so even if you lose and they should see you as a fish you should win this back easily. You are probably a 3/2 favorite. I also think he might have junk like A5/A2 for the over + gutshot...
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wow, i really can't understand pushing here, and 2 people are advocating it. do you like to make it as easy as possible for better hands to take your $?
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Muzzard
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So you're just goign to fold then to the min raise? Coz thats the only other option. There is no chance you are goin to see a showdown for cheap with all this cash in the pot already.
No point flat calling as an Ace is the only card thats really going to change things from your perspective
On a non-draw board why would he raise if he had trips? There are basically no hands he should be worried about on the flop. I put him on medium pair and doesnt believe you've hit the flop with AK/AQ or he has JJ/QQ.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
So you're just goign to fold then to the min raise? Coz thats the only other option. There is no chance you are goin to see a showdown for cheap with all this cash in the pot already.
No point flat calling as an Ace is the only card thats really going to change things from your perspective
On a non-draw board why would he raise if he had trips? There are basically no hands he should be worried about on the flop. I put him on medium pair and doesnt believe you've hit the flop with AK/AQ or he has JJ/QQ.
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but it's not just a minraise. it's bet/3bet. the lack of draws makes it more likely that he already has a monster. why would he raise? because that's what you do when you have a good hand...unless you like to play backwards and just put lots of money in when you are behind and slow way down when you are ahead. Also, there's no way to be sure that we aren't going to be able to see a cheap showdown just b/c of the action so far. Villain may just check the turn, he may bet tiny again...you don't know anything for sure.
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Lukie
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I'd probably just call and get it in on any turn that isn't a 10. I wouldn't be overly thrilled about a 7 either, but this line doesn't look like a draw AND NOBODY EVER HAS A 2 CARD STRAIGHT!!!
disclaimer: when my aces aren't good, I usually get stacked. I generally chalk this up to variance and give myself a pat on the back knowing that huge sack of sklansky dollars next to me is starting to overflow. I'm also quite good at paying off straights, especially when I can put someone on an exact 2 cards. It's always cool to say "yup, I knew what he had", with a little bit of results-orientedness worked into the mix.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
So you're just goign to fold then to the min raise? Coz thats the only other option. There is no chance you are goin to see a showdown for cheap with all this cash in the pot already.
No point flat calling as an Ace is the only card thats really going to change things from your perspective
On a non-draw board why would he raise if he had trips? There are basically no hands he should be worried about on the flop. I put him on medium pair and doesnt believe you've hit the flop with AK/AQ or he has JJ/QQ.
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but it's not just a minraise. it's bet/3bet. the lack of draws makes it more likely that he already has a monster. why would he raise? because that's what you do when you have a good hand...unless you like to play backwards and just put lots of money in when you are behind and slow way down when you are ahead. Also, there's no way to be sure that we aren't going to be able to see a cheap showdown just b/c of the action so far. Villain may just check the turn, he may bet tiny again...you don't know anything for sure. |
What I'm saying is why reraise on the flop, there is no need to here, there are no draws that make sense. So you like to give your hand away big time on the flop yeah? So opps can fold easily to you. I'm saying that most people would play this tricky as there are no hands that really worry you so its best to make moves on other streets.
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takesix
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10-29-2006, 04:28 PM
Post subject: Re: AA vs. min-donk/re-raise on flop
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#17 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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What part of limp/call, then minbet/minraise 3bet doesn't look like a (very, very poorly played) set? Keep the remaining 80 BBs, top back off, and nail the moron later.
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Ship It
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
What I'm saying is why reraise on the flop...
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how about for value? how about to build a pot? i raised pre-flop. i raised the flop. he knows i like my hand. if he has a monster and he knows i like my hand as well then what's the problem with raising? i hope you aren't one of these guys who slow way down once they actually hit their hand and fail to build a pot vs. villain's overpair/2 pair/etc. which he has probably fallen in love with.
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Muzzard
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Ok, fair play.. Mayb it is trips. But it's a very badly played one at that! I hope you dont play this the same if this happens
I'm all for betting for value/building the pot. But what I'm saying is what is going to call you in this spot? Not much with no draw, no two pair
So why make someone fold their defending bet of AK/AQ or pair of tens or overpair? When there is no need. If he flat called then the pot would be $20, plenty of room for making a value bet on the turn and getting it all in on the river if neccessary
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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Posts: 5,042
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Ok, fair play.. Mayb it is trips. But it's a very badly played one at that! I hope you dont play this the same if this happens
I'm all for betting for value/building the pot. But what I'm saying is what is going to call you in this spot? Not much with no draw, no two pair
So why make someone fold their defending bet of AK/AQ or pair of tens or overpair? When there is no need. If he flat called then the pot would be $20, plenty of room for making a value bet on the turn and getting it all in on the river if neccessary
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Just flat calling his min donk bet is very very horrible.
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martindcx1e
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Ok, fair play.. Mayb it is trips. But it's a very badly played one at that! I hope you dont play this the same if this happens
I'm all for betting for value/building the pot. But what I'm saying is what is going to call you in this spot? Not much with no draw, no two pair
So why make someone fold their defending bet of AK/AQ or pair of tens or overpair? When there is no need. If he flat called then the pot would be $20, plenty of room for making a value bet on the turn and getting it all in on the river if neccessary
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Just flat calling his min donk bet is very very horrible. |
he's talking about if he is the one with a set leading into me.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Ok, fair play.. Mayb it is trips. But it's a very badly played one at that! I hope you dont play this the same if this happens
I'm all for betting for value/building the pot. But what I'm saying is what is going to call you in this spot? Not much with no draw, no two pair
So why make someone fold their defending bet of AK/AQ or pair of tens or overpair? When there is no need. If he flat called then the pot would be $20, plenty of room for making a value bet on the turn and getting it all in on the river if neccessary
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Just flat calling his min donk bet is very very horrible. |
he's talking about if he is the one with a set leading into me. |
oh snap
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"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
Ok, fair play.. Mayb it is trips. But it's a very badly played one at that! I hope you dont play this the same if this happens
I'm all for betting for value/building the pot. But what I'm saying is what is going to call you in this spot? Not much with no draw, no two pair
So why make someone fold their defending bet of AK/AQ or pair of tens or overpair? When there is no need. If he flat called then the pot would be $20, plenty of room for making a value bet on the turn and getting it all in on the river if neccessary
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Just flat calling his min donk bet is very very horrible. |
he's talking about if he is the one with a set leading into me. |
oh snap |
no he di'int!
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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pushing is donkish IMO.
How often do you figure to be good versus a donkbet/3bet line?
Anyone insta-pushing this flop is just leaking implied odds to even semi-decent players.
Fwiw, we didnt need to raise to $7 either, $5 does the same thing.
Also, i dont think we get called by JJ/QQ if we push over the 3bet. We might by a cold called KK but i doubt that happens.
I also think a big pp oop would pot this flop, not minbet.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
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Yeah, in my last post i was talking about the villan!
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
This is often just a ten that doesn't believe you.
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are you serious? you see that play that often? |
Yes, his range here is like :
T9+, JJ+ (discount KK), sets and lots of other crap. Call. If he checks the turn or bets weak again I'm felting this.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
This is often just a ten that doesn't believe you.
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are you serious? you see that play that often? |
Yes, his range here is like :
T9+, JJ+ (discount KK), sets and lots of other crap. Call. If he checks the turn or bets weak again I'm felting this. |
i just don't see this line too often & when i do it's usually 2pr or better.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Yes, his range here is like :
T9+, JJ+ (discount KK), sets and lots of other crap. Call. If he checks the turn or bets weak again I'm felting this.
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i just don't see this line too often & when i do it's usually 2pr or better.[/quote]
Maybe it's a stakes or 6 max thing? I see crap like this with lukewarm hands trying to get a feel for where they are at on the cheap. If someone is making stupid bets into me, then I usually just felt a hand like AA.
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