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evovolvo
Old 10-26-2006, 01:39 PM     Post subject: AA problems #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is 60/10 over 50 hands.
Would you play different ?

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($75.00)
UTG ($29.10)
UTG+1 ($65.70)
UTG+2 ($119.80)
MP1 ($177.35)
MP2 ($136.70)
Hero ($96.00)
CO ($86.95)
Button ($14.00)
SB ($110.00)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, A.
4 folds, MP2 calls $1, Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, MP2 calls $3.

Flop: ($9.50) Q, 7, 3 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $7, MP2 calls $7.

Turn: ($23.50) 3 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $15, MP2 calls $15.

River: ($53.50) 5 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $25, MP2 raises to $100, Hero calls $45 (All-In).

Final Pot: $223.50

Results in white below:
MP2 has 7h 7d (full house, sevens full of threes).
Hero has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and threes).
Outcome: MP2 wins $223.50.
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Rondavu
Old 10-26-2006, 01:51 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You're getting 3-1 with AA on a blank board. Against a tough opponent I check decide the river, because there's no reason for someone to just call that flop and turn bet with anything you're ahead of unless they think you've been unreasonably aggressive.

Are you asking yourself what an opponent has and why?
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evovolvo
Old 10-26-2006, 02:17 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Against a tighter player I would definatly check behind on the river. I put him on a queen, until he put me all in on the river. But by then the pot was $180 and I had $45 left.
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mcatdog
Old 10-26-2006, 02:24 PM     Post subject: Re: AA problems #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evovolvo
Villain is 60/10 over 50 hands.
Would you play different ?
Yes, bet bigger on the turn so that the pot is big enough to go all-in on the river. This guy is going to call you down with a lot of hands that you beat, but with your weak bet sizes, the only way all the money goes in is if he raises you (which probably means you're losing, against this guy).
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nutsinho
Old 10-26-2006, 02:34 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 river is a clear fold despite 4:1 odds.
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martindcx1e
Old 10-27-2006, 02:45 AM #6 (permalink)  
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don't bet the river if a raise would put you in a tight spot
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dpe8598
Old 10-27-2006, 03:22 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I probably would have stayed weak on the river (either continuation 15 bet or check) and hoped to call a weak raise.

One more think, sometimes your Aces are going to be busted up. I'm not saying that its not possible to save a few bucks on this hand, but if you post a HH w/ busted Aces, you will always get a bunch of theories on how you could save the money.

To me, it looks like this guy flopped a set, got a dream turn card, and made a bunch of money, just like you would expect against AA.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-27-2006, 06:05 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
river is a clear fold despite 4:1 odds.
I think you are being result oriented, I can't imagine folding versus a guy with those stats. I know it's fifty hands but if any of you have taken statistical process control you would know that fifty hands can tell you a lot.
Anyways, with a guy who has 20/10 stats this is still a hard fold for me
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Ash256
Old 10-27-2006, 03:55 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 The check-called flop was very setty, but the turn is usually where I see sets get check-raised. Well played by the opponent. I probably check the river - it's a dry board, so you can't really put your opponent on a draw, therefore it's very probably a slowplay.
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jyms
Old 10-27-2006, 05:05 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 I don't play this high of stakes, but when I have overpair and I get check called, check called and checked on the river, I'm done. There is enough of a pot for TP, check and screw his plan or take the pot. To give more money on this line, I don't know, Does any hand call that river bet that you beat?
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mb2447
Old 10-27-2006, 11:23 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Does any hand call that river bet that you beat?
I've seen QJ call that river bet more times than I can count.

Though the raise sets off alarm bells, for sure.
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handsomestan
Old 10-28-2006, 09:18 AM #12 (permalink)  

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I think your preflop and flop betting suck.

Why are you min-raising preflop? This is a classic donk move. You're inviting people into the pot, and this is reducing your chance of winning it.

Your bet on the flop is way too cheap. Anyone who has flopped a pair is going to hang around and try to hit two-pair or trips.

In a 200nl game I'm making it ~10 when I have aces, and betting at least $20 on the flop.

Your betting pattern with aces is going to be -EV long term.

If they want to stay in the hand, make them pay!
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evovolvo
Old 10-28-2006, 11:05 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handsomestan
I think your preflop and flop betting suck.

Why are you min-raising preflop? This is a classic donk move. You're inviting people into the pot, and this is reducing your chance of winning it.

Your bet on the flop is way too cheap. Anyone who has flopped a pair is going to hang around and try to hit two-pair or trips.

In a 200nl game I'm making it ~10 when I have aces, and betting at least $20 on the flop.

Your betting pattern with aces is going to be -EV long term.

If they want to stay in the hand, make them pay!
This is a NL 100 game, I raised 4BB, and the I bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop.
Dunno why it says $2 blinds.

In the 40k hands I have in pokertracker so far, AA is my most profitable hand by far with 92% winrate and 5.6BB/hand.
I'm still not sure I played this wrong, against a very loose oppenent like this. Oh well..
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mcatdog
Old 10-28-2006, 11:31 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Does any hand call that river bet that you beat?
Tons of worse hands call that bet.
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handsomestan
Old 10-28-2006, 01:48 PM #15 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evovolvo
Quote:
Originally Posted by handsomestan
I think your preflop and flop betting suck.

Why are you min-raising preflop? This is a classic donk move. You're inviting people into the pot, and this is reducing your chance of winning it.

Your bet on the flop is way too cheap. Anyone who has flopped a pair is going to hang around and try to hit two-pair or trips.

In a 200nl game I'm making it ~10 when I have aces, and betting at least $20 on the flop.

Your betting pattern with aces is going to be -EV long term.

If they want to stay in the hand, make them pay!
This is a NL 100 game, I raised 4BB, and the I bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop.
Dunno why it says $2 blinds.

In the 40k hands I have in pokertracker so far, AA is my most profitable hand by far with 92% winrate and 5.6BB/hand.
I'm still not sure I played this wrong, against a very loose oppenent like this. Oh well..
Ah, in that case I apologise.

For a 100NL game I think your betting is ok. I'd probably go harder preflop, but thats a personal thing.

77 is precisely the hand you call with in the hope of cracking a premium starting hand, which is exactly what has happened in this case.

I would DEFINITELY check the river though - only ever bet the river when you are certain you are infront.
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salsa4ever
Old 10-28-2006, 02:25 PM #16 (permalink)  
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i'd check the turn

as played, i think the river bet/call is okay. sometimes loose cannons hit sets against your AA. it happens
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martindcx1e
Old 10-28-2006, 04:29 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
i'd check the turn

as played, i think the river bet/call is okay. sometimes loose cannons hit sets against your AA. it happens
i like betting the turn and checking the river much better.
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