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AA - anyway to get away from this?

  
 
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pokerroomace
Old 02-18-2007, 12:03 AM     Post subject: AA - anyway to get away from this? #1 (permalink)  
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No reads or stats.
I know that he's decent/good. He's not a donkey.

Texas Hold'em $0.50-$0.50 NL (Real Money), #1,891,871,188
Table Serres, 17 Feb 2007 7:03 PM ET



Seat 1: Eb TBOI-O... ($48.30 in chips)
Seat 2: leenu111 ($54.95 in chips)
Seat 3: pokertufsen ($47 in chips)
Seat 4: JV--13 ($73.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Zelenia3352 ($60.10 in chips)
Seat 8: hurricane el ($71.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Timefox ($29.05 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero ($81.45 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Eb TBOI-O... posts blind ($0.25), leenu111 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
pokertufsen folds, JV--13 folds, Zelenia3352 bets $2, hurricane el folds, Timefox folds, Hero bets $6, Eb TBOI-O... folds, leenu111 folds, Zelenia3352 calls $4.

FLOP [board cards 6s, 8s, Js]
Zelenia3352 checks, Hero bets $8, Zelenia3352 calls $8.

TURN [board cards 6s, 8s, Js, 5d]
Zelenia3352 checks, Hero bets $23, Zelenia3352 bets $46.10 and is all-in, ...Hero calls $23.10.

RIVER [board cards 6s, 8s, Js, 5d, 2h]


SHOWDOWN
Zelenia3352 shows [ As, Ks]
Hero shows [ Ac, Ad]
Zelenia3352 wins $119.95.



SUMMARY
Dealer: Hero
Pot: $120.95, (including rake: $1)
Eb TBOI-O..., loses $0.25
leenu111, loses $0.50
pokertufsen, loses $0
JV--13, loses $0
Zelenia3352, bets $60.10, collects $119.95, net $59.85
hurricane el, loses $0
Timefox, loses $0
Hero, loses $60.10

Usually, I would the hide results but I don't think there's anything to hide. The last question is call the allin? I don't think I can fold given the PO.

There's no other way to play this is there? I need to bet so I don't get outdrawn on. By the time I realize I'm likely beat it's too late. Should I bet less on the turn and try and make a tough laydown?

Is all the above standard? Could anyone have played differently/better?
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griffey24
Old 02-18-2007, 01:31 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Sometimes you have to give free cards to avoid losing control of the size of the pot. I would have checked through this turn and called his river lead. All you have is one pair on a monotone board. This isn't the spot where you want a big pot.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-18-2007, 07:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 What hands c/r the turn that you beat?
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pokerroomace
Old 02-18-2007, 03:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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griffey24 makes a good point. I think that was the best play for the turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
What hands c/r the turn that you beat?
good point. i should have folded even with the 3to1 PO. AsJo might put it allin on the turn (but AJ might have even folded pf). But not many other hands. A flush would.

His range of hands after calling my preflop bet is maybe KK-77 and AKs-AJo (and possibly KQs/o).
I don't think he's staying in with anything weaker.

After my flop bet. He's folding 77-99 for sure. Probably TT. I think he would raise with JJ. He might call with QQ or KK, but KK he would probably have 4bet pf or raised on the flop.

He could have AKs, AQs or AsJo after he calls my flop bet. AKs is the most likely.

When he puts it allin on the turn. His range is QQ, AKs, AQs I think, and a smaller chance of AJ and JJ.

If you add in the donk percentage, I think I have to call. I think the donk percentage could be up to 20% easily, maybe higher.

With the 3to1 PO I felt I was getting good enough odds to call.
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swiggidy
Old 02-18-2007, 04:24 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Don't bet the pot on the turn. $14 would accomplish the same thing that $23 would and you wouldn't have "3:1 odds" when calling a push.

Checking behind is ok too
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Beck
Old 02-18-2007, 05:42 PM #6 (permalink)  
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also, I am generally not a big bet pot fan. including on the flop I would have made it $6 on the flop, then I would probably check the turn and call any non spade river, or bet 10 on turn and probably fold to a strong re-raise. You said it yourself that he is a good player, and very few "good players" at that limit will make sucha strong play with nothing

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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-18-2007, 06:27 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I disagree that villan has overpairs in his range after he check raises all in on the turn after check calling the flop. If he were a smart player he would have wanted to make a bet no later than 4th street to see if his hand were actually best. So, i think he MAY have a set (also played strangely with the same suit flop) or he has a flush. It could also be a bluff, or possibly As-Jx. You are 4% to beat a set, drawing dead against a flush, and a favorite against any bluff. The likelihood villan is bluffing due to the strength of your actions so far (PF raise, big flop, turn bets) is small, and your strength against his most likely holdings (you're all but dead) make this a fold, even with 3 to 1 pot odds.

If you are factoring in "donkness" to persuade yourself into making a marginal call, you are making -EV decisions.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-18-2007, 06:34 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 One other consideration:

By the turn you have committed nearly 2/3rds of your stack. Your opponent puts you all in anyways. This would be a horrendous bluff, since you would be offered excellent pod odds and don't have to worry about calling future bets. So you have to give him even more credit for a strong hand (all strong hands have you dominated at this point).
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BankItDrew
Old 02-19-2007, 10:30 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 The biggest improvement I have made to my game in the past 6 months: Checking the turn with strong but vulnerable hands.

An to re-iterate what an above poster mentioned: No hand that you beat c/r the turn.


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pokerroomace
Old 02-20-2007, 04:51 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the replies. And I agree with what you say.

One thing though: I don't know how a good a player he is. He SEEMS to be ok/good. But I really do know very little about him.

Vi-Zer0Skill - I think his donkiness is a big part of the hand. And QQ is a donk play. From first impressions I thought that he is PROBABLY not a donk - not definite at all though.
But you're points are too strong and you are definitely right here IMO. In general though - the players I'm playing at PR have a high level of donkiness. And I think this is an important factor for one to consider in all hands.

Do you think if I posted this hand without the results a high percentage of FTRs would put my opponent on AKs? or a flush?
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