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77 flops boat OOP multiway
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AFchung
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07-31-2009, 02:54 AM
Post subject: 77 flops boat OOP multiway
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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First few hands at the table
Was this way too strong of a line? On review I think I would've let a card peel and maybe lead the turn.
The donk in me wants to minraise so we can have a bloated pot on the turn 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop
MP1 ($56.45)
MP2 ($59.65)
CO ($50)
Button ($57.15)
SB ($41.40)
Hero (BB) ($57.55)
UTG ($34.35)
UTG+1 ($50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 , 7
UTG bets $1.50, 4 folds, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, Hero calls $1
Flop: ($6) 7 , 2, 2 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 2 folds
Total pot: $16.50 | Rake: $0.80
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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why are you doing that, just call and let them catch up with another card
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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The c/r is fine. UTG is cbetting into a 4way pot, which means his range is likely pretty strong. A c/r is repping a pretty thin value range, something like 77/A2s. So I'd expect him to call or 3bet your c/r with most of his range, overpairs and such.
C/calling isn't a terrible option, because he is likely to bet most turns when checked to, since his likely range is overpairs. However, you think need to c/r the turn, or c/c turn, and c/raise river, and by then the board might come out pretty scary for his weakish overpairs.
I'd just c/r, because people love to think you are doing it with flush draws here.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
The c/r is fine. UTG is cbetting into a 4way pot, which means his range is likely pretty strong. A c/r is repping a pretty thin value range, something like 77/A2s. So I'd expect him to call or 3bet your c/r with most of his range, overpairs and such.
C/calling isn't a terrible option, because he is likely to bet most turns when checked to, since his likely range is overpairs. However, you think need to c/r the turn, or c/c turn, and c/raise river, and by then the board might come out pretty scary for his weakish overpairs.
I'd just c/r, because people love to think you are doing it with flush draws here.
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This assumes way too much imo.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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I agree that it does but I think the point is that you're getting more money into the pot when those assumptions are true with the c/r line whereas c/c will let people get away from their stronger hands when scary turns and rivers fall. When the assumptions aren't true it doesn't matter anyway because you're usually not winning more than the cbet (and occasionally a barrel) no matter which line you take.
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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so villain isnt betting this with a flush draw?????????
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
so villain isnt betting this with a flush draw?????????
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as an utg preflop raiser, he most likely does not have a flush draw
the button MIGHT have a flush draw, but his range will also consist of pocket pairs
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
The c/r is fine. UTG is cbetting into a 4way pot, which means his range is likely pretty strong. A c/r is repping a pretty thin value range, something like 77/A2s. So I'd expect him to call or 3bet your c/r with most of his range, overpairs and such.
C/calling isn't a terrible option, because he is likely to bet most turns when checked to, since his likely range is overpairs. However, you think need to c/r the turn, or c/c turn, and c/raise river, and by then the board might come out pretty scary for his weakish overpairs.
I'd just c/r, because people love to think you are doing it with flush draws here.
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This assumes way too much imo. |
What assumptions is this directed at?
It should be apparent that his range is pretty strong. Unless of course villain is terribly loose preflop, or not positionally aware. The majority of his range is pocket pairs, and suited broadways (obv). With the board being only 7 high, then obv the majority of his pocket pairs, are now overpairs. So his range is fairly strong. Without reads, I don't see how that assumption can really be disputed.
Our value c/raising range is relatively narrow. I also don't think this assumption can really be disputed as we obv squeeze KK-AA, and maybe JJ-QQ depending. We aren't c/raising our small pocket pairs when an UTG opener cbets a 4way flop, so a c/r really only reps 77/A2, maybe QQ. However, given the great pot odds we had calling preflop, we are likely to have loads of flush draws in our range, and while we likely don't c/r those hands here, villain's definitely do not know this.
If you are stating that we are assuming that villain is competent and knows this, then yeah, that's really the only disputable assumption I made, as most villains aren't coherently thinking about our range. However, if that is the case, then I still do not give them the credit to fold the majority of their overpairs, which is still (unless they are very lose from UTG) the majority of their range.
C/calling is not terrible, as it allows any flush draws he has to possibly catch up, as well as any AK/AQ hand. And he is still likely to valuebet his overpairs on the turn. However, being OOP I would prefer to take infinitive, and build a pot.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Checkraising is obviously +EV but probably not the best play here. Spades and any J,Q,K,A is probably a bad card but eh. Also, you made it too big.
Check/call and lead all turns looks good. Really difficult to play this hand bad.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I like how you want to bloat the pot, if you call it's gonna be like ~$16 on the turn, then you can lead and jam the river
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