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6max NLHE: Call or Fold with JJ overpair?

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Fnord

06-21-2004, 09:25 AM Post subject: 6max NLHE: Call or Fold with JJ overpair?

#1 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

A previous hand for reference...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

SB ($41.65)
BB ($52.55)
UTG ($127.55)
MP ($22.65)
CO ($49.85)
Fnord ($23.75)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with K

, Q

.
UTG raises to $1, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, Fnord calls $1, SB folds, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5.25) 5

, 3

, 9

(5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $5, MP folds, CO calls $5, Fnord raises to $22.75 (All-In), BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls $17.75.

Turn: ($55.75) 8

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($55.75) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $55.75

Results in white below:
CO shows Kc 5c (one pair, fives).
Fnord shows Ks Qs (high card, ace).
Outcome: CO wins $55.75.

Now onto the hand in question...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

BB ($36.65)
UTG ($21.20)
MP ($164.10)
Button ($49)
Fnord ($31.40)

Preflop: Fnord is SB with J

, J

.
UTG folds, MP raises to $1, Button calls $1, Fnord raises to $3, BB calls $2.50, MP calls $2, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($12) T

, 3

, 5

(4 players)
Fnord bets $10, BB folds, MP calls $10, Button raises to $46 (All-In), Fnord ???

MP is LAgg
Button was CO in previous hand.

LAgg would call pre-flop with just about any two cards. He would call the flop bet with as little as bottom pair.

Call or Fold? Should I be more inclined or less inclined to fold because of LAgg's call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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maxxscam

06-21-2004, 03:02 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 734

all in
only thing that might beat you is a set of 3's or 5's, i am thinking the best hand out ther is a pair of tens, so you have them beat and i would call.

06-21-2004, 03:15 PM

#3 (permalink)

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johnnyawe

06-21-2004, 03:33 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,064

That's a tough one. I've been trying to crack the six person tables ($50 NL) over the past two weekends. I may give it up. There is no logic to them at all. If you raise $4 preflop, people will still play 68s. And people constantly come over top of me with 2nd best pair or a low pocket pair.

Hands like the one you posted are what kill me.. If I had read this 2 weeks ago, I would definitely say fold. However, I now know that the play is just unbelievably loose/agressive at these tables.

I would put MP on two overcards, possibly suited. And I would put the button on a stone cold bluff. Given that the button or MP did not try to start a raising war preflop when they had the opportunity, I would probably call. Well actually I would probably fold, but I think the right play is to call. Thats a tough one..

johnnyawe

06-21-2004, 04:57 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,064

waiting with baited breath to see what happened..

ttanaka

06-21-2004, 05:39 PM

#6 (permalink)

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This depends on the chip stacks. Since you have $13 already invested, with only $18 left, I think you make the call.

If you were the big chip stack and had to call the entire $46 raise, I think this is a fold.

Xianti

06-21-2004, 06:00 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I've seen way too many idiots at Party go all-in with just top pair on the flop (yes, even something as mediocre as a pair of 9s), and this CO guy seems just the type to do it (calling your all-in on the previous hand with bottom pair?!).

I would call.

Fnord

06-21-2004, 07:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

all-in on a King high flush draw ????

Shame on you Fnord

lol, how would you play it? $5 in the pot, $10 more of flop bets. Flush draw with 2 overs and enough stack to make a big scary bet. I'm not worried about being eliminated from a tourney. If I just call, the turn is very likely going to miss me. I don't see how this move isn't +EV.

47% win EV: $26.20

53% win EV: $29.55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

06-21-2004, 07:03 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I folded

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

BB ($36.65)
UTG ($21.20)
MP ($164.10)
Button ($49)
Fnord ($31.40)

Preflop: Fnord is SB with J

, J

.
UTG folds, MP raises to $1, Button calls $1, Fnord raises to $3, BB calls $2.50, MP calls $2, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($12) T

, 3

, 5

(4 players)
Fnord bets $10, BB folds, MP calls $10, Button raises to $46 (All-In), Fnord folds, MP calls $36.

Turn: ($114) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($114) 5

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $114

Results in white below:
MP shows Qd Td (two pair, tens and fives).
Button shows Tc 9c (two pair, tens and fives).
Outcome: MP wins $114.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Xianti

06-21-2004, 07:15 PM

#10 (permalink)

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I told ya. CO went all-in with top pair and 9 kicker. HA!

Gotta get used to the maniac bets at PP. Especially after his previous play, CO had "maniac" written on his forehead.

Fnord

06-21-2004, 07:30 PM

#11 (permalink)

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With no draws out call,raise is a pretty scary pattern.

ttanaka had it nailed, I was pretty much pot committed. Gotta love them party 50x BB stacks...

Comparted to LAgg, the button was fairly sane, which threw me off I guess. Anyway I left the table with a $100 stack (mostly LAgg's money) and an overall profit. But throwing that one away made it a lot harder than it had to be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

DrNoChance

06-22-2004, 12:31 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 411

Going back to that other hand, I didn't mind your semi-bluff with the flush draw and 2 overcards to the board. A little risky without having the Ace flush draw, but not a terrible play at all. You're hoping to win it right there with the raise, and you've got outs if they call (you don't know how many outs, depends on what the others are holding). Hard to believe what they called your all-in with on that hand. Crazy stuff.

I'd have called in the 2nd example based on your opponents previous play. I'd put them both on a pair of tens. I'd have been right, I guess.

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