Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Full Ring NL Hold'em

  > 

50nl - turn bluff good?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Micro2Macro
Old 08-31-2009, 03:46 AM     Post subject: 50nl - turn bluff good? #1 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 Villain is running 18/14ish over a few hundred hands that I have on him from 25nl and 50nl. His WTSD stat is 18% and AF is 3.5. He's cbetting 70-80% so I peeled of course because my hand > his cbet range. The turn may have improved his hand but I doubt he's stacking off with one pair given his low WTSD so I decided to raise.

I felt calling was an option..though kind of shitty I guess given he's probably going to barrel this turn with almost all of his range and he could fire the river again in which case there's no way I could call, and the fact that I can likely fold out Ax/Tx gave me incentive to raise since I doubt he'd continue with AK/AQ/AJ because I'm basically just repping a set, and I should have a pretty tight/solid image to him (like 13/10ish).

I hadn't been very active at all postflop during the session (about 100 hands in) I think this is the first time I've raised the turn during this time so I felt my timing was okay to rep big. Sizing a bit too big? I think maybe $16ish would allow me a better price without really changing his continuing range...

I suppose I could just fold too..not sure if this is really spewy or not :/

This isn't really something I do that often (maybe not enough?) so I was just looking for some input..I guess my image+whether or not my opponent can fold would be the biggest factors in determing my turn decision.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($16.70)
UTG ($30.60)
UTG+1 ($58.15)
MP1 ($91.75)
MP2 ($50)
Hero (MP3) ($60.05)
CO ($73.05)
Button ($55)
SB ($52.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9, 9
3 folds, MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2, 4 folds

Flop: ($4.75) 7, 10, 3 (2 players)
MP2 bets $3, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($10.75) A (2 players)
MP2 bets $6.50, Hero raises to $20
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Old 08-31-2009, 03:51 AM #2 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
yeah seems ok unless he knows you make moves or you know he's not foldy, usually i'd just fold but it's good to throw these in once in a while.
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 08-31-2009, 03:52 AM #3 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 yeah, he may have made a note that I did this on the A turn so perhaps next time I'll wait till I have it.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 01:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
definitely take a note, if he noticed then he'll think you're a spewy mofo for the next ten years
Reply With Quote
ZwiFT
Old 09-01-2009, 09:47 AM     Post subject: Re: 50nl - turn bluff good? #5 (permalink)  
ZwiFT's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
ZwiFT is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to ZwiFT Send a message via AIM to ZwiFT Send a message via MSN to ZwiFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
and the fact that I can likely fold out Ax/Tx gave me incentive to raise since I doubt he'd continue with AK/AQ/AJ because I'm basically just repping a set, and I should have a pretty tight/solid image to him (like 13/10ish).
I know if i were him, i wouldnt give you credit. Are you really raising turn with a set compared to raising the flop, or call call reraise. Cus i think raising turn with a set sucks. But ya, i dont disaprove your bluff.. Since most players see turn raise as fucking strong

edit: I would give you credit if you never floated or did any tricky stuff tho
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 10:36 AM #6 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
aren't we also repping A3s, A7s, ATs?

also, if raising turn as a bluff bad, how is raising the turn for value bad? Either one is bad or the other, ldo

refer to: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t88726.html
Reply With Quote
ZwiFT
Old 09-01-2009, 10:41 AM #7 (permalink)  
ZwiFT's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
ZwiFT is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to ZwiFT Send a message via AIM to ZwiFT Send a message via MSN to ZwiFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
aren't we also repping A3s, A7s, ATs?

also, if raising turn as a bluff bad, how is raising the turn for value bad? Either one is bad or the other, ldo

refer to: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t88726.html
I didn't say raising turn as bluff was bad, but as a set. Raising turn as a bluff vs a player who knows your thinking like this is bad-
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 09-01-2009, 09:54 PM #8 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZwiFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
and the fact that I can likely fold out Ax/Tx gave me incentive to raise since I doubt he'd continue with AK/AQ/AJ because I'm basically just repping a set, and I should have a pretty tight/solid image to him (like 13/10ish).
I know if i were him, i wouldnt give you credit. Are you really raising turn with a set compared to raising the flop, or call call reraise. Cus i think raising turn with a set sucks. But ya, i dont disaprove your bluff.. Since most players see turn raise as fucking strong

edit: I would give you credit if you never floated or did any tricky stuff tho
yeah this is what I was wondering about...if I actually had a set on this board I'd probably just call flop, call turn, bet/raise river...so my line is really unbalanced. However, he doesn't know this..so it may be likely that he gives me credit this time. If I try this again with him though, I think the liklihood of getting looked up increases significantly. As far as me floating and doing tricky stuff I hadn't been calling him much in position at all to take advantage of his wide opening range (leak?). I've 3bet him a few times this session (he has a high fold to 3bet% and doesn't seem to adjust) but other than that I hadn't been messing with him.

I think you make a really good point in regards to game flow, and that if I had been playing back at him postflop with bluff raises/floats etc this would be a good time for him to take a stand where I'm repping a pretty thin range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
aren't we also repping A3s, A7s, ATs?

also, if raising turn as a bluff bad, how is raising the turn for value bad? Either one is bad or the other, ldo

refer to: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t88726.html
I don't think he'd put A3s/A7s in my range given my position preflop, had I been OTB or CO perhaps. I think I'd be more inclined to 3bet these hands preflop though as a bluff, given the frequency he folds to 3bets. I suppose we're still repping them though since he'll have to at least consider I have 2pair here.

About the complementary nature thing, I think raising the turn for value would be worse than bluffing because we wouldn't get value from a 3rd barrel, and we may get him to believe he's potstuck on the river if he bets and we raise given the pot odds he'll face. On the turn we have the power of using implied threat - my raise looks like I'm committed to the hand, so now he must decide whether he wants to play his 1 pair type hands for stacks. So for value I'd call/call/bet-raise. I suppose if I was messing with him postfop alot I could raise the flop for value and level him into a rebluff.

Any feedback on my thinking here would be appreciated.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
badgers
Old 09-01-2009, 11:42 PM #9 (permalink)  
badgers's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
badgers
Send a message via MSN to badgers
Looks fine, $16 is a little cheaper but just size it the same as you would with a set (ie. aim for his stack). He's probably barreling this turn a lot but not enough to make calling profitable. This makes our hand really easy to play and puts him in a shit spot.
3k post - Return of the blog!
 
Reply With Quote
Deanglow
Old 09-02-2009, 01:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
Deanglow's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
Deanglow is on a distinguished road
 Every reg knows what you are doing here with perceived ranges, frequencies, (insert poker term here) etc. But all that really matters in this spot is how you think he will react here based on history and your image.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:45 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.