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spoonitnow
Old 07-25-2006, 02:44 AM     Post subject: 50NL TPTK IP line #1 (permalink)  
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 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($47.70)
Button ($41)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($10)
UTG ($132.25)
UTG+1 ($62)
MP1 ($49.50)
Hero ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, A.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 4 folds, UTG calls $2, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($8.25) Q, 2, 5 (3 players)
UTG bets $2.5, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $6, UTG calls $3.50.

Turn: ($20.25) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($20.25) J (2 players)
UTG bets $4.5, Hero calls $4.50.

Final Pot: $29.25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 07-25-2006, 02:57 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Reads?

In general, this a really bad check on the turn.
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thnwkd
Old 07-25-2006, 03:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Reraise more on the flop from there on out i think you can chk/fold without a second thought. would he limp suited connectors utg? QJ/KQ? and call a raise?

I have problems with these types of hands... is this a case where a big reraise only gets call by a hand that beats me and folds out hands that i beat like 66 - TT , AJ, KQ or do i need to put in the re-raise to define my hand and price out draws? interested in what others think.
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spoonitnow
Old 07-25-2006, 03:39 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid
Reads?

In general, this a really bad check on the turn.
No reads or I would of listed them.

Explain why you think this is a bad check on the turn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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BobbySalami
Old 07-25-2006, 04:46 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I dont agree with the check on the turn either...here is my reasoning....

From your small reraise on the flop he is getting ~5.5:1 odds on calling, is that enough info to put him on a big hand? I dont think so, those are perfectly good odds for calling with any sort of draw he may have, not including implied odds of which he seemed to have better as well.

Since you cannot put him on a draw/monster due to this fact, you have to bet the turn here to prevent the draw, 1/2 pot would even do nicely.....then reevaluate on the river...

Thats my opinion anyways.
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spoonitnow
Old 07-25-2006, 01:18 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Alright, that makes sense. This is my understanding of the hand thusfar. Please point out where I'm right/wrong/could be better/etc.

As far as figuring out how I could of played this hand better, raising more on the flop is an option, but should I really do this? If I raise more, say $9 or $10 into a pot of $10.75, then it seems like he's only calling if he has me beat, and I'm winning a small pot when I'm ahead and losing a big pot when I'm behind.

Since the smaller raise on the flop doesn't clarify his hand strength, and I didn't give him bad odds for the flush draw, I absolutely have to bet on the turn. A bet of about $11 seems reasonable.

On the river, if my opponent had bet more, like 3/4ths the pot, then I have to give him credit for the flush, especially since my line looks a lot like a free card play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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BobbySalami
Old 07-25-2006, 03:06 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Are you Really looking to play a big pot here?...no, if you take it down on the flop be happy with your small pot. You do not want to go in with TPTK into a huge pot on most occasions.

If he comes alive on the turn when a blank comes this usually screams set and you can confidently fold.

And on the river, it depends, as played you have to call, also in this situation with your check on the turn, he may think you dont like your hand that much and lead into you thinking he can take the pot from you when the scare card hit.
If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!

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bair
Old 07-25-2006, 03:34 PM #8 (permalink)  
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i'd definitely raise the flop harder to like 10...i dont mind a turn check for value since there is only 1 draw. river is an easy call.
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cardsman1992
Old 07-25-2006, 04:56 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Reraise to $10 on flop.

Definitely cannot check the turn. As played, $15 on turn. He will let you know if he has a set.

As played, river is easy call. You showed so much weakness that he is trying to buy a pot cheaply on the river.....
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spoonitnow
Old 07-25-2006, 05:33 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
Are you Really looking to play a big pot here?...no, if you take it down on the flop be happy with your small pot. You do not want to go in with TPTK into a huge pot on most occasions.

If he comes alive on the turn when a blank comes this usually screams set and you can confidently fold.

And on the river, it depends, as played you have to call, also in this situation with your check on the turn, he may think you dont like your hand that much and lead into you thinking he can take the pot from you when the scare card hit.
So my shitty play on the turn sets me up for a hard decision on the river?

Edit:

Okay, I don't want to play a big pot here, but I also have to guard against the flush draw. If I raise to $10 on the flop, he'll have to call $7.50 with a pot of $20.75, or about 2.8:1 while he needs 4.2:1. This will make the pot $28.25 on the turn.

After he checks, if I bet $15, he's got 2.9:1 to call a flush draw. I have $20 left behind. If he "hits" on the river and pushes, I have to fold, right? Assuming (for the sake of discussion) that he takes all that on the river if he hits, he's getting 4.2:1 implied odds on a draw that he needs 4.1:1 on.

It seems like if I try to give the flush draw bad odds to call, then I end up playing a big pot with TPTK. Do I need to tone down my raise on the flop and bet on the turn a little? Enough to still give him bad odds to call, but a little smaller so that maybe I end up on the river with less than half my stack in the pot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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BobbySalami
Old 07-25-2006, 05:52 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Yes, in a way, what if he comes out and bets the pot at you on the river, you have absolutely no idea if he has a monster or is just pushing you around and you would have to lay it down.......
If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!

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Miffed22001
Old 07-25-2006, 07:23 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 position/site suggest calling the flop, unless you think UTG will limp a weaker queen/sooted stuff in which case raise the flop and bet the turn hard so you arent folding the river no matter what turns up.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-25-2006, 08:58 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 when he calls your turn bet, he is "saying" he has a weaker hand than you.
Therefore, you bet the turn when he checks to you. He could possibly be slowplaying... but that's why you put him on a range of hands.
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paulwright
Old 07-25-2006, 09:13 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Agreed - re-raise more on the flop and bet the turn - both these actions would have helped define his hand and hopefully made things clearer...
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thnwkd
Old 07-26-2006, 01:25 AM #15 (permalink)  
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This hand comes down to your read on villian i think. So far he's limped utg and called a raise preflop, this is normally a small - medium pp from tight/average players. The weak lead on the flop seems like a question.... is my hand good, did the flop help you? or it could be a poorly played set.
I think calling the raise is the best move without a read... if chkd to i bet half pot. If villian makes another weak bet on turn i reraise 3-4x his bet providing the reraise will be at least potsize.
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spoonitnow
Old 07-26-2006, 01:27 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
position/site suggest calling the flop, unless you think UTG will limp a weaker queen/sooted stuff in which case raise the flop and bet the turn hard so you arent folding the river no matter what turns up.
Villian had Q9o.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Miffed22001
Old 07-26-2006, 01:49 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
position/site suggest calling the flop, unless you think UTG will limp a weaker queen/sooted stuff in which case raise the flop and bet the turn hard so you arent folding the river no matter what turns up.
Villian had Q9o.
UTG ($132.25)


guess this fish was having a lucky day eh?
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spoonitnow
Old 07-26-2006, 02:00 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
position/site suggest calling the flop, unless you think UTG will limp a weaker queen/sooted stuff in which case raise the flop and bet the turn hard so you arent folding the river no matter what turns up.
Villian had Q9o.
UTG ($132.25)


guess this fish was having a lucky day eh?
I stacked this guy twice before I was done at this table, was pretty nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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