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50nl - tits or gtfo?

  
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-24-2010, 11:53 PM     Post subject: 50nl - tits or gtfo? #1 (permalink)  
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Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 13/10 nitty post low wtsd 30% ATS high flop cbet %

timing was hesitant on turn/river. his bet sizing is pretty gay and i doubt he's leveling me / pretending to appear weak its as if he just wants to set the price to see a showdown. I 3bet him 2 orbits in a row b4 and folded to a cold 4bet the second round. not sure how relevant this is.

my image is ok i suppose but aggressive pretty much all around. doubt he's paying much attention besides what he has me on hud (17/13?)

there's something about players at this level, in that their bet sizing is really unbalanced and timing often gives away what they're thinking. i dunno how to describe it but i just felt like im winning this pot so often if i jam and not so much at sd given he's not value betting worse enough for me to call. I think making it like $28 on top and leaving some money behind is just asking to get a suspicious hero call plus when I have the nuts here I wanna get max value so thats why im jamming with my bluffs+value hands. thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($45.55)
UTG ($66.95)
UTG+1 ($94.25)
MP1 ($50)
MP2 ($42.45)
CO ($98.20)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($47.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, A
4 folds, CO bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, 2 folds

Flop: ($3.25) 9, 3, 10 (2 players)
CO bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($7.25) J (2 players)
CO bets $4, Hero calls $4

River: ($15.25) 6 (2 players)
CO bets $8, Hero raises to $42.75 (All-In)
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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caddie444
Old 09-25-2010, 03:33 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 The only real hand(s) you're repping are like A-10dd, maybe KQdd, there just aren't that many nut hands in your range once you just call the turn, which means you are bluffing with a much higher frequency in this spot than value betting.
Having said that since you have the Ad and since it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to get shoved on here I guess it's not that bad, but I think with the price he is laying + we're not sure if he is capable of b/f'ing his 3Barreling value range here (no mention of it above) I think calling is better.


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Micro2Macro
Old 09-25-2010, 03:36 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 99,tt,jj,kqs,87s

and its not even so much about i rep vs a player like this ithnk
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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caddie444
Old 09-25-2010, 03:39 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
99,tt,jj,kqs,87s

and its not even so much about i rep vs a player like this ithnk
I'm not saying he would be able to read hands or whatever, but if he can he should recognize that you are raising every single one of these hands on the turn.


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Micro2Macro
Old 09-25-2010, 05:19 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caddie444 View Post
I'm not saying he would be able to read hands or whatever, but if he can he should recognize that you are raising every single one of these hands on the turn.
not really/it depends
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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Seabass
Old 09-25-2010, 07:51 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
99,tt,jj,kqs,87s

and its not even so much about i rep vs a player like this ithnk
You can only rep a few combos of those imo and then some floated XdYd. It might not matter. But then, what hands better then AJ is he VB that he is willing to fold here?

I could be wrong but it feals like we either think he is good and can vb thin, but then he should be able to figure out that we aint repping much. Or we think he is bad and dont care what we rep, but then I dont think he can VB thin either as I think those types of players go into CC-mode a lot here. So in the end we are trying to get a non-thinking player to fold 2p+?

I dont mind the sizing since I do like a shove for value here.

If we think he is wide/cb to much I like a small raise on the flop rather then floating.
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Raoni_Poker
Old 09-25-2010, 08:27 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I think I am very naive, but...I don't see a point on your shove. You have TPTK and you're turning it into a bluff. I is reasonable if you think that he is folding QQ+, but with these hands, he is not betting that small anyways on 3 streets with undercards and possible draws.

I don't think a low flush will fold here as often as the board has 3 suited cards, which it makes less likely for you to have a flush yourself.

Perhaps he is folding 2 pair hands, but...there aren't many combos. If he has AK, missed draws, second pairs he is not calling you anyways.

I would just call here. It is a strange line for sets. I would also put you on ATdd or perhaps KQ (suited or not). Even though people might not actually put people in ranges...it is rather easy to identify strange lines.
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-25-2010, 10:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 so if you guys have KK here you call it off because apparently I rep nothing?

Raoni what makes you think he is ever bluffing here?
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

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daven
Old 09-26-2010, 05:46 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Ad in the hole and very nice hand dude
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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Seabass
Old 09-26-2010, 10:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
so if you guys have KK here you call it off because apparently I rep nothing?

Raoni what makes you think he is ever bluffing here?
I´m not villian and I dont make these small bets either so thats way to hard to tell. If I got to this river and made a vb with KK then I would fold, but I have so many strong hands that can call aswell in my range.

If you have a specific read that he cant have hands that can/should call here, then go with that read.

Why I like a shove in general spots like this for value is cos I think I will get called. Same reason I´m not all that happy about bluffing. But thats a more general rule rather then a specific read.

If you think he is very unbalanced here, why do you say you would jam for value when you think he cant/wont call often? Balancing vs a player like that is unnecessary.
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-26-2010, 11:03 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass View Post

If you think he is very unbalanced here, why do you say you would jam for value when you think he cant/wont call often?
im bluffing

he never value bets worse so I can't be value shoving
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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Seabass
Old 09-26-2010, 12:14 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
there's something about players at this level, in that their bet sizing is really unbalanced and timing often gives away what they're thinking. i dunno how to describe it but i just felt like im winning this pot so often if i jam and not so much at sd given he's not value betting worse enough for me to call. I think making it like $28 on top and leaving some money behind is just asking to get a suspicious hero call plus when I have the nuts here I wanna get max value so thats why im jamming with my bluffs+value hands. thoughts?
I was referring to this.
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-26-2010, 10:06 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 when I have a hand like Ad3d I'm obviously shoving for value even if I think he's going to fold 90% of the time.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

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badgers
Old 09-27-2010, 12:23 AM #14 (permalink)  
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meh I don't think I like it you will occasionally get snapped by overpairs that level themselves into thinking you are FOS, which I think you are a fair bit since his turn bet was so small and it's not really a board you want to slowplay on with monsters. Also I wouldn't be that surprised to see a nut hand here, or a worse jack, so I prefer calling.
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Raoni_Poker
Old 09-27-2010, 06:12 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
so if you guys have KK here you call it off because apparently I rep nothing?

Raoni what makes you think he is ever bluffing here?

I honestly don't see a reason for an overpair, 2-pair, sets type of hands to bet so small in the turn with a possible flush draw in the turn. It seems that hands such as AQ+ are second barreling. His bet on the river could be a 3rd barrel as bluff as a third diamond came. You're playing like you have top pair, so...he could have some fold equity after the third diamond.

His small bet on the turn seems a blocking bet (as a semi-bluff) or a 2nd barrel as bluff. Well,, that's how I see it.
 
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lancelott_
Old 09-28-2010, 12:31 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 just call lol, you`re beating bluffs and even some of his vbetting hands (KJ/QJ)
no need for fps here
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-28-2010, 12:40 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 he doesnt barrel turn aggressively so not only does he have many bluffs by the river i doubt he's going to bluff with this size?

and surely he's not value betting worse almost ever. blocking the nfd is also relevant.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Illfavor
Old 09-28-2010, 12:50 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 Just call ppl triple barrel Khi FDs all the time. This guy is full of it and is def. taking this line w/Jx as well and sometimes Tx so many busted draws amd he's prolly just trying to get max value out of his set, possibly Outlawing you as well.
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nutsinho
Old 09-28-2010, 03:33 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 reraise or fold preflop, raise or fold flop, fold turn, shove river
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-28-2010, 04:18 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho View Post
reraise or fold preflop, raise or fold flop, fold turn, shove river
my reason for flatting pre was both sb and bb were fish

but at least i got one street right lol
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

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oskar
Old 09-28-2010, 10:26 AM #21 (permalink)  
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 I don't really like anything about the hand except the river shove.
But make sure that he's capable of bet/folding rivers. That's not the strong point of even the nittiest 50NL regs.

especially:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
I 3bet him 2 orbits in a row b4 and folded to a cold 4bet the second round. not sure how relevant this is.
makes me not want to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
my reason for flatting pre was both sb and bb were fish
Ok, then I like preflop too.

Also:

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caddie444
Old 09-29-2010, 02:25 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by nutsinho View Post
reraise or fold preflop, raise or fold flop, fold turn, shove river
head asplode

Nuts whats ur 3B'ing range from sb vs this guy? Do you have a calling range at all here pre?


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Deanglow
Old 09-29-2010, 05:22 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho View Post
reraise or fold preflop, raise or fold flop, fold turn, shove river
This, except I'm a fish and don't fold turn
 
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