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50NL, standard or not ?

  
 
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pokerfan
Old 05-23-2010, 01:44 AM     Post subject: 50NL, super standard ? #1 (permalink)  
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hand 1: villian seems an unknown fish. Im just not sure whether i should shove or just make 1/2-2/3 PSB on the river.
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($95.85)
UTG ($39.15)
UTG+1 ($55.90)
MP1 ($50)
MP2 ($45.15)
MP3 ($53.05)
CO ($51.50)
Button ($56.25)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 4 folds, Hero bets $2, MP2 calls $2

Flop: ($5.25) 8, A, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, MP2 calls $3.50

Turn: ($12.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, MP2 calls $7.50

River: ($27.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $82.35 (All-In)

Total pot: $90.55

hand 2: villian is 12/8/3 with 3% 3 bet total over 320 hands.Can we fold at any point in this hand? He repped so little that i was hard pressed to find the fold button.
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($29.05)
MP2 ($58.45)
CO ($50.75)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($52.70)
BB ($112.90)
UTG ($35.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
4 folds, Hero bets $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1

Flop: ($4.50) 6, 6, Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB raises $10, Hero calls $7

Turn: ($24.50) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($54.50) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $24, Hero calls $23.50 (All-In)

Total pot: $101.50
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jaytoi
Old 05-23-2010, 02:13 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Rofl you're not really getting great value from much with a river shove, and losing more to sets and AK. Bet/bet/bet is pretty standard vs a fish but just make the usual 2/3rd pot or 1/2 pot on the river.

Hand 2 depends on reads.. sucks that he decided to rep trips or w/e here . Obviously with his stats he hardly has a 6 much but he can certainly have QQ, tho its obv a massive cooler. He has AQ/KK a lot here imo. Good choice to keep the pot small and he can definitely be thinking were FDing given our somewhat passive line. i'd probably lose a stack here too.

Im guessing he had u beat hand 2 ?

{edit: my bad didn't realise u were double stack in hand 1 lol. pretty standard then }
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caddie444
Old 05-23-2010, 02:55 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand 2: give him a range that just calls your open preflop (keeping in mind he's in the bb and there's already a caller from the sb, so what combos should you eliminate/discount given he didn't 3-Bet?) take that range and estimate which hands would checkraise this flop, and stove it (also keep in mind you have blockers for AA, AQ, stove will do the work for you, but it is something you should be inherently aware of)


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pokerfan
Old 05-23-2010, 05:15 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caddie444 View Post
Hand 2: give him a range that just calls your open preflop (keeping in mind he's in the bb and there's already a caller from the sb, so what combos should you eliminate/discount given he didn't 3-Bet?) take that range and estimate which hands would checkraise this flop, and stove it (also keep in mind you have blockers for AA, AQ, stove will do the work for you, but it is something you should be inherently aware of)
I'm fully aware that he might come along for the ride preflop with 6x in a 3 way pot.Are you saying that you are more happy to call down with KK because we have blockers against AQ?I just cant see a clear fold given that AA is at the top of my range here and he could play this way with AQ(less combos) or slowplay KK preflop.
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Muzzard
Old 05-23-2010, 06:41 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I'd just fold turn in 2, given that he probably doesn't have the aggression or creativity to turn anything that you beat into a bluff.

I'd say his range is like 67s/56s and QQ, I'd say 66 too, but can't see a flop raise much. I very much doubt he would flat KK pre being OOP and being vs a BU steal with an SB call and I doubt he raise/fires turn and river with AQ when ur hand is at worst AQ as you would 3b or flat flop, then shove turn if you had 6x.

You would also most likely give up your Axcc hands on the turn. Making it most likley by river your range is AQ/KK/AA/QQ/66, while this is a pretty strong range, it seems unlikely that you have QQ/66 or 6x given ur line and therefor vills 6x or better is easily feltable.
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lancelott_
Old 05-23-2010, 08:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 hand 2 its so sick - he is not repping anything, he should be 3Bing QQ pre 90% time, and he don`t have any 6x in his range besides quads. But than again, he ain`t taking this like for value with worse like AQ or with FD or smth..
Hand 1 vs fish, i mean depends how fishy he is, might be fine, might be a bit too think, I`d bet like 2/3p on the river i guess to keep more hands in his range, but than again I`d bet bigger on every street before to set up like 2/3p river jam probably. Vs reg or anybody tighter / compitent without super aggro history I`d check at some point, maybe ch-fold the river.
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PapalRage
Old 05-24-2010, 04:09 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 - I'd bet 19 on the river. I think a random fish calls a lot tighter for his whole stack.

Hand 2 - Well played. I think you see a lot of KK, KQ and AQ here. I don't think QQ plays the flop like this ever. With the deck crippled QQ would definitely slowplay this flop, especially after not 3betting pre. 12/8 players don't have nearly enough 6's in their range to make this a fold.
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bikes
Old 05-26-2010, 05:50 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 hand 2 fold.
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Micro2Macro
Old 05-26-2010, 08:58 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 @ 12/8 players not having 6x in their range - does that mean someone who's 18/16 is auto flatting more hands in this spot?

he's in the bb vs bu+sb flat 65s,64s,76s,86s,A6s,66 are all reasonable 6x combos and we block the nut flush draw and hes a NIT so given that it looks like a fold if not on the turn, then on the river. He is bluffing this river 0% of the time, look at the price he's laying.
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Deanglow
Old 05-28-2010, 08:23 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 What's more likely, a nit having 6x or bluffing in this spot? I thought so.
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 05-28-2010, 09:35 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanglow View Post
what's more likely, a nit having 6x or bluffing in this spot? I thought so.
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Outlaw
Old 06-07-2010, 09:36 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Both hands look pretty standard
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Halv
Old 06-08-2010, 06:42 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 you should consider betting just a little bit bigger on earlier streets so that you can shove for pot on riv. Personally I don't mind having slightly more than pot, it does some good things like make the villains think you're very polar when you jam, lets us vb half pot without it looking super weird, lets them bet smaller instead of just shoving when we want to bluffcatch, etc etc. But you def need to be aware of the effects and reasoning behind your bet sizing. In this hand in particular betting small is gross because he's a fish and will call larger with worse ALOT.

Hand 2 if we fold turn/riv shouldnt we just fold flop?

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pokerfan
Old 06-08-2010, 03:18 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I agree with micro2macro and muzzard.Fighting against nits in this tricky situation without nuts is the receipe for disaster.Hmmm, I ran into the top of my opponents range so often these days.
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