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50nl - nut flush draw vs unknown oop

  
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 11-04-2009, 04:07 AM     Post subject: 50nl - nut flush draw vs unknown oop #1 (permalink)  
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 Best line to take here?

c/f
c/c
b/f
b/c
?

I kinda wanna b/f since calling a turn raise oop here and having to hit would be meh..? espec given limited info im not sure we can count on getting paid off in that case. is a turn barrel really folding much that peeled the flop with though? perhpaps checking is more appropriate if that's the case...thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($53.35)
Hero (UTG) ($64.40)
UTG+1 ($55.05)
MP1 ($50)
MP2 ($51.10)
CO ($52)
Button ($50)
SB ($135.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, A
Hero bets $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.50, 4 folds

Flop: ($5.25) 5, 3, 7 (3 players)
Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $3.50

Turn: ($12.25) 9 (2 players)
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Deanglow
Old 11-04-2009, 04:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 bet that turn and think about triple barreling
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 11-04-2009, 04:22 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
bet that turn and think about triple barreling
would you triple almost any blank?

or how about,

any heart, king or jack as a bluff (queen/ace for value),

which is like 20 some cards..., c/fold on total blanks I suppose since we probably get stationed by 88 when the draw misses as most people are in fact stations with pocket pairs on boards like this.
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hangchiong
Old 11-04-2009, 04:01 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I hate c/c,b/f is preferable.The 9s is not preferable card to barrel but i think we should build the pot if a heart comes on the river.

I would like to hear about river blank options thou
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DoanDiggy
Old 11-04-2009, 06:28 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Timing tells would be useful in this spot. Also some info on MP2 would be great. Can he even hand read?
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Deanglow
Old 11-04-2009, 06:34 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 The 9 is not a great card to barrel but we are UTG and can credibly rep a big hand. If this were COvBU I would probably still bet but probably won't barrel the river
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 11-04-2009, 06:47 PM #7 (permalink)  
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If we're betting the turn I think we have to plan to shove a LOT of rivers. MP2 can easily have like 44, 54, 65, 66, 87, 88, even like 98ss, and a lot of players on this turn are going to convince themselves that you could still have AK or AQ and they have outs if not.

Can MP2 fold? Can he re-evaluate his hand given the action so far? If so, betting like 12 here and jamming a non 4-8 river could be good, UNLESS MP2 is the type to slowplay the flop AND turn on drawy boards. If Villain is slowplaying the flop only, he will raise our 12 (with a set or straight) and we can fold (unless he minraises, then we have sick odds to call and jam when a heart comes that doesn't pair the board).

If MP2 can't put us on an overpair, I much prefer betting like $6.50 to price in our good equity (and there is some value! think A2, A4, A6, esp with the spades, and KJ, KT, JT ss or hh) and then value betting any river that we hit. We can consider a 2/3 pot river bluff if the K comes.
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Micro2Macro
Old 11-04-2009, 09:15 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
The 9 is not a great card to barrel but we are UTG and can credibly rep a big hand. If this were COvBU I would probably still bet but probably won't barrel the river
This is essentially what lead me to posting the hand. I figured I didn't really have much fold equity on the turn although I wasn't writing out the plan in my head on which cards to barrel on the river - which is likely a big mistake, though I'm sure I would have just came to the decision at the time when faced with it (perhaps this is a good indicator that I need to play less tables)

In the hand I took the b/f line because once I got raised on the turn I realized my outs are now tainted and I probably wouldn't get paid anyway.

And yeah, I suppose the river (well basically all streets) comes down to what MP2's tendencies are, unfortunately in the hand I had no information since he just came to the table and he hadn't done anything noteworthy yet, though I think without reads I'd still fire on a K, heart, ace or queen at least so it's not like I'll be giving up on the river a ton when I fire the turn.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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TerryToma
Old 11-05-2009, 04:10 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I'd probably bet 1/2 pot on turn, re-eval river card. Hopefully he's on a lesser heart draw and you both hit.
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Micro2Macro
Old 11-07-2009, 03:10 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 What you guys think of c/r'ing the turn?
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 11-07-2009, 04:19 AM #11 (permalink)  
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What value hand would you do that with? It just pretty much looks like exactly the hand you have. And it gives someone who slowplayed a set or turned a straight very easy value. Most of the hands in his range (did you read my post above?) that would even consider folding are just going to check behind the turn.
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