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50nl, KK is my least profitable hand

  
 
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fjuanl
Old 08-08-2006, 05:13 AM     Post subject: 50nl, KK is my least profitable hand #1 (permalink)  
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 Through 2k hands KK is BY FAR my biggest losing hand. By the way this played out I really couldnt see myself having the best hand, but I was getting 3-1 on my money on the river. I have no reads on villian. i see about 8 million mistakes i made but i need to see if my judgement is right

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($16.83)
MP2 ($68.55)
MP3 ($23)
CO ($37.39)
Button ($16.25)
SB ($49.50)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($24.50)
UTG+1 ($44.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 6 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2.

Flop: ($9.25) 4, 8, 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $5.

Turn: ($19.25) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $5, Hero calls $5.

River: ($29.25) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+1 raises to $30, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $74.25
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Dislexsik
Old 08-08-2006, 10:49 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If u call the turn then why are u folding the river?
 
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mxiu
Old 08-08-2006, 10:59 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Raise to 3.5 PF. Pot the flop. Check call from the turn on.
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givememyleg
Old 08-08-2006, 11:42 AM     Post subject: Re: 50nl, KK is my least profitable hand #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjuanl
Through 2k hands KK is BY FAR my biggest losing hand.
This will not last. It will be 1 or 2 most profitable.

What do you think is the biggest problem you have with it? Do you stack off to sets? Have any bad beats with it?

Honestly, 2,000 hands isn't enough. You had KK, what 10 times, in those 2k hands? In my first 5k hands AA wasn't in my top 5. Now it is number 2 (KK still pwnz it).

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fjuanl
Old 08-08-2006, 08:19 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 my thoughts

1. i need to reraise more preflop, to $4 is probably good

2. i need to bet more on the flop, 6-9$

3. i still dont know whether or not i should have bet the turn. i decided to check because if he has an overpair to the flop the king doesnt look good and maybe he checks behind. its hard to tell if he flopped a set, has an overpair lower than kk, or turned the flush. on the river you would think a set and a pair above the flop would call.


had kk 12 times, 2 of them were top sets that i played correctly that were managed to be cracked. one was this hand and another a cooler. i dont think i have a problem playing it, i just really feel uncertain about how i should play this turn card
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Warpe
Old 08-08-2006, 08:23 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Your sample size is way too small to be indicative.



 
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fjuanl
Old 08-08-2006, 08:34 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 your right, but what is the best way to play the turn/river and explain
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Rondavu
Old 08-08-2006, 08:44 PM #8 (permalink)  
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What is your read on UTG+1? Does he call with weak cards, anything suited? Is he a gambler? When he calls the initial preflop raise, and then calls your reraise, this could be a low pocket pair.

I honestly think you sucked out set over set on the turn, and then folded the best hand on the river.

The mistake you made was leading the river for value, after feeling beat on the turn by a flush (or you would have lead the turn too). That's a little wishy washy. As played check call the river, if your read was a possible made flush.

You gotta figure out what the guys preflop calling range is though. This helps your turn decision immensely.
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Fnord
Old 08-08-2006, 08:50 PM #9 (permalink)  
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No fucking way I don't see a showdown here. I'm either blasting round 2 on the turn or check-bombing it. By then, there's so much money in the pot that we're taking this to the felt.

UTG+1 shows you AK a lot of smaller sets and all sorts of random stuff. Also, by commiting on the turn, you get the money in while you still have outs against the frush.
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fjuanl
Old 08-08-2006, 09:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 thanks for clearing that up fnord

btw - this was the first hand of my session and had no stats on villian
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DaHorror
Old 08-08-2006, 09:17 PM #11 (permalink)  
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"As played check call the river, if your read was a possible made flush." - Rondavu

I agree - as played, since you check-call the turn - unless you're just damn sure he sucked out to the flush, just call his river $15-20.

I don't think I check here - I don't want to give up the lead. Thus
(1) raise to $3.50 preflop
(2) bet 2/3 pot or more on the flop
(3a) Lead out the turn for half pot or slightly more
(3b) Check-raise the turn hard
(4) Check-call/fold the river mostly dependent on reads (and depending on your 3a/3b path & results, and pot size/commitment).

In starting to move up to $50 NL, I have noticed that there are more folks who will over-smooth call just waiting for you to show weakness so that they can pounce...they tend to lose the stomach for it if you show continued strength (and a likely willingness to call any scare-card raise they put in). Not saying that this was one of those cases, but I think it makes check-calling the river more profitable in general.

In your case, being out of position does suck...and I can't say that I don't fear the A Q
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