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Keilah
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05-19-2008, 07:57 AM
Post subject: 50NL - How the effff do I play AK
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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Villain is 17/15 and I've never seem him get his stack in bad.
idk why I check/called the flop that's actually pretty stupid now I think of it. Anyways, on the turn I pick up the FD and now what? I've got just over a PSB left in my stack. Do I shove here? AA/KK will call and be ahead, AK may call or may fold, and QQ- I assume will fold.
Pokerstove says I'm right about even money if I shove and he always has AA/KK/AKs and will call. So I shove, or is there a more +EV line?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($50.85)
Hero ($82.15)
MP2 ($66.85)
CO ($61.60)
Button ($53)
SB ($132.65)
BB ($24.20)
UTG ($54.70)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , K.
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $4.
Flop: ($12.75) K , T, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $9.5, Hero calls $9.50.
Turn: ($31.75) 7 (2 players)
Hero ??
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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fold pre.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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Thanks tips 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
fold pre.
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But it's s0000ted.
Check/call the turn.
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
fold pre.
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But it's s0000ted.
Check/call the turn. |
Agree!
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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If ur image is fairly aggro 4bet pre vs this guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
If ur image is fairly aggro 4bet pre vs this guy
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6max is getting to your brainsssss!
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
If ur image is fairly aggro 4bet pre vs this guy
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I would do the same, regardless of my image.
A 15/17 could easily do this with hands he'd lay down a 4-bet to.
I hate flatting AK preflop.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Nah, I´m serious.
Assuming villian views us as somewhat aggro PFR>9, playing AK oop in a 3bet pot vs sane opponents means pain in the ass. Vs a 17/15´s 3betting range of 88+/AQ+/KQs we will end up so often in reverse implied situations that I hate calling here. A 4bet will get him off 88-JJ, which is great AND our 4bets aren´t KK+ exclusively anymore.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
Nah, I´m serious.
Assuming villian views us as somewhat aggro PFR>9, playing AK oop in a 3bet pot vs sane opponents means pain in the ass. Vs a 17/15´s 3betting range of 88+/AQ+/KQs we will end up so often in reverse implied situations that I hate calling here. A 4bet will get him off 88-JJ, which is great AND our 4bets aren´t KK+ exclusively anymore.
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are we calling a shove? What if villain flats?
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Seabass
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: trying not to die
Posts: 205
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Easy check call on the turn.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
are we calling a shove? What if villain flats?
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Depends on how likely villian is to 5bet shove AK. My default play is folding unless I know better. From what I´ve experienced any villians range for calling 4bets IP is largely read dependant, but the biggest part is usually QQ. Question is, if he´s the type of guy to flat KK+, given stats I doubt it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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If we're going to fold to a shove and we don't expect villain to call our 4bet very often with hands other than when it's to trap with AA/KK, wouldn't it be better to 4bet with the weaker hands in our range rather than AKs?
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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If we 4-bet to like 18 and he pushes, we're getting almost 2:1, but I'd say it's a fold. Any more than that, we're committing ourselves.
I like the flat and I check/push or check/call the turn. If his post-flop AF is high, I push, if it's low I call and assume he can pay off that flush a majority of the time. If he checks back I'm probably check/calling any non-heart river to snap a bluff off.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
If we're going to fold to a shove and we don't expect villain to call our 4bet very often with hands other than when it's to trap with AA/KK, wouldn't it be better to 4bet with the weaker hands in our range rather than AKs?
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good point, I´ll get back to that tomorro coz im drunk now. i expect his calling range to contain not much beside QQ, i didnt say it was weightened towards KK/AA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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check/all in turn because youre not going to c/f the river with so little behind and you want to realize your edge vs AK w/o a flush draw.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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check/all in turn because youre not going to c/f the river with so little behind and you want to realize your edge vs AK w/o a flush draw.
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This is how competent mid stakes players will play it almost every time.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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So you figure the equity from my draw outweighs any FE I may have vs AK?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keilah
So you figure the equity from my draw outweighs any FE I may have vs AK?
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The hands you're ahead of have very few outs and I don't see you pushing him off AK very often.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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How about we make a small donk/block bet and fold to a push on the turn? bad line? Given his stats and squeeze position, i prefer to 2.5x 4 bet/fold preflop cuz AK oop sucks a whole lot regardless of sooted or not.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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That line seems reasonable. What if he flats my 4bet?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
How about we make a small donk/block bet and fold to a push on the turn? bad line? |
I  people who run lines like this against me. Free money.
Save cute "where am I at lines" for the times when you don't have a lot of outs to beat AA.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i think a blocking bet is very effective vs many passive unskilled villains and some hands like AA, QQ, JJ might just call in this situation. Its not like i want to know "where am i standing" but we set the price for our nuts drawing hand.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
How about we make a small donk/block bet and fold to a push on the turn? bad line? |
I people who run lines like this against me. Free money.
Save cute "where am I at lines" for the times when you don't have a lot of outs to beat AA. |
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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if he flats 4 bet, i stack off with TPTK and c/f on most unimproved flops. 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keilah
That line seems reasonable. What if he flats my 4bet?
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 903
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.....seriously you cant figure this out?
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[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reDZill4
.....seriously you cant figure this out?
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Thanks for posting, you're a cool guy.
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spoonitnow
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05-21-2008, 01:27 PM
Post subject: Re: 50NL - How the effff do I play AK
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#27 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keilah
Do I shove here? AA/KK will call and be ahead, AK may call or may fold, and QQ- I assume will fold.
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You kind of answer your own question?
Check/shove the turn imo.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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true enough.
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