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50NL: flopped a set, how to extract the most?

  
 
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jimmy44
Old 07-27-2007, 09:56 AM     Post subject: 50NL: flopped a set, how to extract the most? #1 (permalink)  
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 EverestPoker Game #1853086204: Table Berlin-2 - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:38:59 - 2007/07/26
Seat 1: nevadaLIS ($50.00)
Seat 2: tusojos ($108.26)
Seat 3: -mkb- ($92.25)
Seat 4: maccaluha21 ($63.14)
Seat 5: jaceyraisy ($30.62)
Seat 6: Hero ($50.00)
Seat 7: Guarducci ($83.45)
Seat 8: Sleijpen ($88.90)
Seat 9: MesiaH ($50.00)
Seat 10: Trouble86 ($44.00)
jaceyraisy posts the small blind of $0.25
Hero posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero[ ]
Guarducci raises to $1.75
Sleijpen folds
MesiaH folds
Trouble86 folds
nevadaLIS folds
tusojos calls $1.75
-mkb- folds
maccaluha21 folds
jaceyraisy folds
Hero calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [ ] (pot: $5.5)
Hero checks
Guarducci checks
tusojos bets $5.50
Hero calls $5.50
Guarducci folds
*** TURN *** [ ] [] (pot: $16.5)
Hero checks
tusojos bets $10.75
Hero ???

villain was 51/15/3. Even with a straight draw out there, I decided to check call as I knew villain would be betting. I hoped that Guarducci was on AA and that he would re-raise .
On the turn I knew that if I bet showing strenght villain would shut down with TP. So I was thinking of the check-raise. Do you min check-raise here to about $21? or more?
Do take a more aggressive line by betting the flop, hopping that Guarducci had AA and the aggressive player stays on?
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gingerwizard
Old 07-27-2007, 10:02 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hero raises to $26ish, calls the push and spews when villain flips 99.
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Pants_101
Old 07-27-2007, 12:30 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I would want to get all in and I'd start that process by leading the flop for $3-4 hoping to get raised. I always try to play big hands as if my opp has a hand he's willing to play. If one of your opps has QQ+ or maybe AJ you may get raised to $12 maybe. You call and on the turn pot is $26 say. You can then go for a c/r if he's aggressive enough to keep betting. He bets $18 making pot $44 and you go all in for your last $37. Pot is $81 and he has to call $19, hard for him to fold. This is my flop plan anyway, cards coming on the turn might alter the plan, or if he doesn't bet the turn you may have to lead the river.

Plan B would be lead the flop, get raised and then re-raise trying to get all in right there.
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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bigred
Old 07-27-2007, 01:16 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I like a weak lead on flop.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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jimmy44
Old 07-27-2007, 03:34 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Yup, I used to do that 1 month ago, but lately, I don't know why, but I started to let PF raisers do the betting ...
I think I should come back to my thinking 1 month ago!
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Trashcona
Old 07-27-2007, 03:49 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
Yup, I used to do that 1 month ago, but lately, I don't know why, but I started to let PF raisers do the betting ...
I think I should come back to my thinking 1 month ago!
Everytime I go away from betting my big hands, it bites me in the ass. You think one would learn.
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gingerwizard
Old 07-27-2007, 04:30 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 you know checking a set OOP on a dry board to let pf raiser build pot is not a bad play.
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Pants_101
Old 07-27-2007, 04:45 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerwizard
you know checking a set OOP on a dry board to let pf raiser build pot is not a bad play.
Do you not think by not getting enough money in on the flop you are reducing your chances of winning a big pot in order to increase your chance of winning a small pot? If you check call the flop the pot's $15 on the turn and you have $43 you are still trying to get in. You might manage it but it's harder than if you've bet the flop and got raised. You could c/r the flop but that's likely to make your opp slow down no?
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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wufwugy
Old 07-28-2007, 12:34 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Im sure the ginger meant he'd c/r.
 
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gingerwizard
Old 07-28-2007, 01:54 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 Look at it this way:

We have a set on a rag flop. Villain has raised preflop and will almost certainly cbet if we give him the chance. How do we win mistakes here?

Stop thinking "I have to bet now or it might not go in if he has something", and start planning on winning those mistakes.

The first and easiest mistake to win is the continuation bet, which he only makes if you check, so start there.
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bantam222
Old 07-28-2007, 04:51 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I give bets into the PRF a lot less credit then check raises. When someone say check/calls my cbet and then check min raises my turn bet I'm going fuck and instamucking my hand usually.

sadly lines like that can be the best way to extract value from calling stations...but seeing as it makes me barf every time i try and slowplay a set and getting no value on it, I am a big fan of betting my sets and big hands out trying to build a pot while hiding the strenght of my hand. If the guy folds to my bet on the flop, sure it sucks and i probally could have got a 4-5BB cbet out of him..but when my 44 hits a set, im not looking for a cbet, im going after a stack and building a pot is the only way to get it.
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gingerwizard
Old 07-28-2007, 12:03 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 can you not build a pot after the cbet?

Put it this way, any hand that is going to play for stacks will still call a flop check raise.

What about hands that you'll never get to play for stacks? If you knew your opponent had AQ, then donking out into him is a mistake.

I'm not saying I don't like donking out with a set as a good pot building play in some circumstances. But when I do donk out I have more of a reason than "I want to build the pot quickly." I want to do it on A or K high flops or on drawy boards. Thus I mke the $EV maximising plays against what I feel to be the largest portion of my opponents range.

In OPs hand, most of opponents likely range missed and a check raise will in my opinion win more than a lead. If he has AA/KK, the check raise will still be an effective method of getting in a stack.
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