Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Full Ring NL Hold'em

  > 

50NL - Flop line check

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Keilah
Old 04-15-2008, 07:08 AM     Post subject: 50NL - Flop line check #1 (permalink)  
Keilah's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
Keilah
is b/f the right move here? What's the right move on the turn if he flat calls?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($51.50)
MP1 ($56.70)
MP2 ($29.45)
MP3 ($66.55)
CO ($82.35)
Button ($49.25)
SB ($61.45)
BB ($50)
UTG ($15.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with , .
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, CO calls $2, Button raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero calls $5, CO calls $5.

Flop: ($21.75) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $13.5, CO folds, Button raises to $42.25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $48.75
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Fnord
Old 04-15-2008, 09:13 AM #2 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Put people on ranges. k-thnx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
Erpel
Old 04-15-2008, 09:22 AM #3 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
Erpel
(Beginner comment)
You need to pay $28.75 for a chance to win $77.5. That means you need about 27% equity to justify a call.

I doubt the villain would have 3-bet pre-flop with 44 and 66. 88 is more believable to me but still only really if he's aggressive and somewhat loose.

If the villain is generally passive I would consider his range JJ-AA more or less justifying a call. If he's aggressive enough to 3bet 88 PF he's probably also aggressive enough to have AK, AQs and 99-TT in his range, which again possibly justifies a call. At work now without PokerStove so can't dig out the exact numbers.

If he flats I would be in trouble. In part I could see him flat calling with an AJs or 99 type of hand, but at the same time I'm sure he wouldn't have missed that he'd have $29 behind with a pot size of $49. It's probably more realistic to suggest that AA or KK (or 88) would flat to trap, hoping you take him for AJs or 99 and push the turn.

That said, I don't think I see myself getting away from this hand regardless. I think all my chips go in no matter what. Maybe that makes me a calling station.
Reply With Quote
Keilah
Old 04-15-2008, 04:42 PM #4 (permalink)  
Keilah's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
Keilah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Put people on ranges. k-thnx.
Fnord is this your advice or you asking me to state what I think his range is in the FTR post?

I forget the exact stats but he was a tighty so I'm assuming JJ+/AK to 3bet, QQ+ to raise allin vs 2 players. Maybe JJ as well.
Reply With Quote
d0zer
Old 04-15-2008, 05:13 PM #5 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keilah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Put people on ranges. k-thnx.
Fnord is this your advice or you asking me to state what I think his range is in the FTR post?

I forget the exact stats but he was a tighty so I'm assuming JJ+/AK to 3bet, QQ+ to raise allin vs 2 players. Maybe JJ as well.
I think he's saying this decision is made a whole lot easier if you have a 3-betting range for villain. If you're behind most of it, then fold preflop. If you're ahead of enough of it, feel ok getting it in on this safe flop.

This situation is very villain-dependent, and the better your preflop and postflop reads are here, the easier the decision is.
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 04-15-2008, 05:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Not enough focus on what the other guy has.

Once you get there, think through how he plays all the likely holdings in his range, then run the best line against those.

This isn't blackjack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
MuddyWicket
Old 04-15-2008, 05:35 PM #7 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
MuddyWicket
wrote an essay did some pokerstove deleted essay.

If you put his range as JJ+, AKs we have 43% of it so I am happy to get it in here given bs factor/don't push me around stuff/testicle waving.

If you take his range as QQ+, AKs we have 26% and should fold.

I used AKs to simulate that AK doesnt always shove over here. It also skews it more towards getting it allin than leaving it out.

So the question basically is how often does JJ turn up? With a tighty I would say not so often hence check folding the flop. Yeack that feels weak - especially on this ideal flop.

That means we are calling the preflop 3 bet with the clear intention due to being oop and 3bet by a tighty to trip it or dump it. $5 call to win $42 which is 8.4 to 1. I know Dan harrington said in a book sometimes 5:1 is all you need but this almost suggests folding preflop is not a huge mistake.

someone please tell me I am wrong.
Reply With Quote
Erpel
Old 04-17-2008, 04:31 PM #8 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
Erpel
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyWicket
I used AKs to simulate that AK doesnt always shove over here. It also skews it more towards getting it allin than leaving it out.
I'm a newless cluebie so take this with a grain of salt - but I don't see how this assumption can stand.

His push screams fold equity to me. A move much more likely to be made with a vulnerable hand (like any AK or JJ) than a made hand (like AA). I could easily see AA or KK type hands flatting here to extract more value on later streets. If I wanted to mess around with 'not all hands of this rank being played in this way' I'd say of 6 AA hands, 2 would push and 4 would flat call - of 6 KK hands 4 would push and 2 would flat call - of AK hands 8-12 would push and 4-8 would call or fold.

I still don't see a fold for our Hero here, except if the villain is ultra tight and playing only QQ+ with no chance of JJ or AK. Once JJ or AK are possible I think we have to call.

Edit note: The other thing I meant to mention. QQ is the very top of our Hero's range the way the hand was played.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:33 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.