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12-13-2009, 11:44 PM
Post subject: 50NL Facing 5Bet PF
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#1 (permalink)
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Villain just sat down, bought in for 50bbs. We have no history. How often is this not AA/KK? Villain's bet sizing is horrid, but it's almost like he wants a call... but at 50bbs, would you just shove and say FTW?!
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($47.35)
Button ($101.30)
SB ($9.50)
BB ($25)
UTG ($50.40)
UTG+1 ($52)
Hero (MP1) ($50)
MP2 ($50)
MP3 ($27.85)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q , Q
2 folds, Hero bets $2, 5 folds, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $16, 1 fold
Total pot: $20.25 | Rake: $0
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
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fuck it I shove because that would be my plan when I 4bet
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
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That's what I was going to do but getting 5bet without the nuts just makes me want to crawl back into my hole. 
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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did you actually fold? wow...
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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This coming from a micros stakes player, but i think this is simple enough for my small mind.
Lets talk about this shove. If we shove we are risking $15 to win $35.25 - rake from total pot ( assuming he gets it in with us) If we shove and he folds we take $26.25 - rake.
First lets assume his range is bluffs and AK, QQ+.
Then our equity when we get it in is:
Hand 0: 59.793% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 40.207% { QQ }
In some ridiculous fantasy land where villian is never doing this with anything except above our equity is:
(.4)(35.25) = $14.1 - $15 = a $.90 loss on the play so we have:
(Needed Bluffing %)($26.25) = $.90 hence needed Bluffing % = 3.43%
So yeah why couldnt you have done this and not posted?
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways. Folding here is never an option.
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways. Folding here is never an option.
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That would be shoving $48 into a $6.25 pot. Thats one hell of an overbet.
I think folding could be an option here, although its extremely villain dependent. The pot is $32 or so and we have $38 behind, so if we think villain's range is tight enough (QQ+) and we have no fold equity on a shove, then we should fold.
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acoss3006
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If your not keen to get it in, call the $6 and reevaluate on the flop.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by acoss3006
If your not keen to get it in, call the $6 and reevaluate on the flop.
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this
and ffs he clicked it back, and his sizing on the 3bet is terrible he probably has like AJ
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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4 bet fold JJ, AQ or sometimes AK.
Not so much QQ.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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We have 38 behind, but villian has 9 behind. What am i missing here????? Calling seems pretty trivial as its getting in almost any flop.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TonyB73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways. Folding here is never an option.
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I think folding could be an option here, although its extremely villain dependent. The pot is $32 or so and we have $38 behind, so if we think villain's range is tight enough (QQ+) and we have no fold equity on a shove, then we should fold. |
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways.
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No. If we have to continue to a 5bet its because continuing to a 5bet is +EV. If continuing to a 5bet is -EV then we dont have to continue to a 5bet, in which case 4betting and folding is usually going to be better than shoving anyway.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TonyB73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways. Folding here is never an option.
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That would be shoving $48 into a $6.25 pot. Thats one hell of an overbet.
I think folding could be an option here, although its extremely villain dependent. The pot is $32 or so and we have $38 behind, so if we think villain's range is tight enough (QQ+) and we have no fold equity on a shove, then we should fold. |
We are shoving $21 in.
If AK is in his range he has to fold 20% of the time to make a 4-bet shove profitable. Add JJ to his range and its profitable no matter if he calls or folds.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Don't fold QQ against halfstacks, period.
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grindinginnj
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 143
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what dean said
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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Thanks guys. Getting 3-bet for the minimum when I'm holding QQ just feels like an auto 4bet. Against an unknown half-stack, perhaps a call is correct since we have position? I did feel a fold was correct here because getting 4bet at this level means the goods (for the most part). Fuck I don't know, I suck.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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ez shove
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TonyB73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
4-bet shove since you have to continue to a 5-bet anyways. Folding here is never an option.
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That would be shoving $48 into a $6.25 pot. Thats one hell of an overbet.
I think folding could be an option here, although its extremely villain dependent. The pot is $32 or so and we have $38 behind, so if we think villain's range is tight enough (QQ+) and we have no fold equity on a shove, then we should fold. |
We are shoving $21 in. |
Thats right (sorry, misread villain's stack size). Still a big overbet though.
As played I'd be getting it in, btw.
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