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50NL AKs flops big

  
 
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nogenius
Old 08-05-2006, 03:46 AM     Post subject: 50NL AKs flops big #1 (permalink)  
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Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $54.45
UTG+1: $40.80
MP1: $20.85
MP2: $87
CO: $23
Hero: $57.90
SB: $52.40
BB: $7.50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with A K
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $2.5, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: T Q 8 ($10.5, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $8, MP2 folds, Hero ???

---

Opponent is an unknown, this is fairly early in my session, but he hasn't done anything out of the ordinary so far.

What's your move here?
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ecrujet
Old 08-05-2006, 12:03 PM #2 (permalink)  

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I would raise $24 and call if pushed at and all in regardless on river card. As this is posted i am guessing you called all streets and missed your outs and his AQ held up
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martindcx1e
Old 08-05-2006, 07:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecrujet
...all in regardless on river card.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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givememyleg
Old 08-05-2006, 07:24 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecrujet
As this is posted i am guessing you called all streets and missed your outs and his AQ held up
I highly doubt that is why he posted it.

This is a tough spot against an unknown donkbet. The problem with raising the flop is if he pushes, you do have to call and are most likely against a set/2pair... I think you'd be lucky to be against AQ, but it is possible at these stakes.

Getting allin on the flop isn't that bad, the worst situation (QQ TT or 88) you still have 32% for the straight/flush. But, I think I would like to see a turn card and what my op does on the turn.

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martindcx1e
Old 08-05-2006, 07:33 PM #5 (permalink)  
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i think hero is against more than a single pair here alot of times. indeed this is a tough spot as a raise will most likely get both your stacks in here if villain is sitting on 2-pair or better. neat hand...
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Miffed22001
Old 08-05-2006, 09:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 raise to 24, if he shoves youre calling $25ish into a $75ish pot with 11outs min which is the correct call.
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ecrujet
Old 08-06-2006, 11:47 AM #7 (permalink)  

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Quote:
But, I think I would like to see a turn card and what my op does on the turn.
Scenario 1
What normally happens is you pay $8 and miss your cards and the next bet he leads out again with $8-$12 if theres no further scare card. He is now getting stronger as he has dodged the bullet once and you now only have one card to come you have now put $10.50 into the pot and now dont know wether to put in more on one card.
Scenario 2
You call, a diamond turns over he checks you pick up the betting, he folds or you feign weakness give him a free card the board pairs up. you now have nut flush he has FH
Scenario 3
You raise, he either folds calls or puts you all in.
If he folds you take the pot (result)
if he calls you have 11 outs with two cards to come (thats gottta be %50 ish) edit just checked its more like 4*11 = 44% but it doesnt change my approach, before i wrote this i put him on AQ which gave another 3 outs with the overcard K. 4*14 = 56% ish.
If he puts you all in thats ok see above
It is also possible he has the Q with a kicker lower than a J, in which case you have a further 3 outs with over pairs A and K (this swings it for me).
It is possible he has made his straight already but youve got odds to take the pot.
The worse scenario is he has the 3 queens already and the board pairs up
thats gambling and if your scared of that happening you should fold on flop put the PC away and take up golf (the odds of him hitting his FH are about the same as you hitting the flush).
To summerise I would much prefer to drive this hand instead of being a calling station and see what happens, win or lose.
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samsonite2100
Old 08-06-2006, 03:53 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If Hero is calling a push after a raise to $24, why not just push? With flush + gutshot + two overs which I would count as three outs, we have 15 outs. Including FE, pushing is definitely + EV.
 
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ecrujet
Old 08-06-2006, 06:07 PM #9 (permalink)  

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I wouldnt push because i want to bring him along for the ride, there are so many hands that for him to call would be the wrong bet and these hands are QJ and less tht is why i said it swings it for me.
You have flush draw (9 outs) straight draw (3 outs) and two overcards (6 outs). You dont have any read on him so it may be an oppertunistic bet, say he had for example Q 10c you raised preflop he felt lucky and called, he has hit a piece of the action is first to act and throws in a big bet hoping to convince you that he has the red cards (if you had AK black cards you wouldnt be so keen to act) and he would take down a decent pot. Now if you raise it, because he has invested so much he is likely to call or even reraise, if he does either, he is making the wrong bet as you are a big favourite. If he reraises you have to consider he may have hit his straight or trips but it doesnt matter because you could have him covered and your not gonna throw this hand away To a raise after the flop anyway.
If he has a marginal hand Q 10 or less and you go all in he will fold almost definately, by raising you might bring him along. If he has better he was always going to bet to the end and so were you.










0









0
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samsonite2100
Old 08-06-2006, 06:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
You have flush draw (9 outs) straight draw (3 outs) and two overcards (6 outs).
I wouldn't count all 6 overcards as six outs.

Quote:
I wouldnt push because i want to bring him along for the ride,
What ride? The ride with our A high monster? Our hand is good but loses a tremendous amount of value on successive streets. I think if we're going to play this hand, we want to get our money in on the flop.
 
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Renton
Old 08-06-2006, 06:31 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 raise to 32

this hand is obscenely standard. We stand to win nearly half a stack if they fold, and we are at least 40% to win if they call. Whats the big argument here?
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ecrujet
Old 08-06-2006, 07:31 PM #12 (permalink)  

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I had too much time to respond to my original answer.
A big raise (4 times bet) is obviosly the correct way to go not three like I said originally
Thank you Renton
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strawman
Old 08-06-2006, 11:12 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
raise to 24, if he shoves youre calling $25ish into a $75ish pot with 11outs min which is the correct call.
How exactly does this work? Seriously, if you are playing for stacks what's the logic behind manipulating your stack in such a manner that it makes calling their push correct? Isn't this really a situation where hero will be betting 55.90 to win 15.50 in the pot and UTG1's remaning 30.30? Isn't the more pertinent question here the best means of getting both stacks into the pot on this flop? If raising 24 gets villian to push that's what you want, but calling isn't a pot odds issue at that point.
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Miffed22001
Old 08-06-2006, 11:36 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
raise to 24, if he shoves youre calling $25ish into a $75ish pot with 11outs min which is the correct call.
How exactly does this work? Seriously, if you are playing for stacks what's the logic behind manipulating your stack in such a manner that it makes calling their push correct? Isn't this really a situation where hero will be betting 55.90 to win 15.50 in the pot and UTG1's remaning 30.30? Isn't the more pertinent question here the best means of getting both stacks into the pot on this flop? If raising 24 gets villian to push that's what you want, but calling isn't a pot odds issue at that point.
the chips go in the middle are we going to be pedantic over how in a very very standard situation?
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