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Micro2Macro
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06-23-2010, 02:24 AM
Post subject: 400nl - have I gone mad?
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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villain is b/e - losing nit
$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($212.15)
UTG+1 ($406)
MP1 ($139.60)
MP2 ($370)
Hero ($400)
BTN ($196)
SB ($402)
BB ($416)
Pre-Flop: ($6, 8 players) Hero is CO  
3 folds, MP2 raises to $14, Hero calls $14, 3 folds
Flop:    ($34, 2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $20, MP2 calls $20
Turn:  ($74, 2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $56, MP2 calls $56
River:  ($186, 2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero goes all-in $310
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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There is no shame in checking it down with showdown value. At least less shameful than going insane against bad players with trips
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caddie444
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: constantly UTG
Posts: 723
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yes you have 
but after you fire flop/turn river shovel seems necessary
obvious questions: How often does he c-bet OOP and did you have any reads regarding him slowplaying OOP or calling double/triple barrels on dry boards?
Or are you just going by the assumption that a nit should never get to the riv this way with a set or AA, or 78 due to his preflop nittiness and turn c/c?
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Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Does betting 160 accomplish the same thing as a bluff? a shove looks so bluffy to me here.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Does betting 160 accomplish the same thing as a bluff? a shove looks so bluffy to me here.
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This is the exact reason I'd overbet value shove this river 100% v most 25/50/100(some not most here) regs.
Looks fine unless he's checking a bunch of Ax combos to us postflop and not folding 2nd pairs like 77/88/TT-KK on the turn.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
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Also if he's a huge nit you might make him fold silly trips like A7s/A8s/AT(?) that thinks they are just getting value shoved on 100%
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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i like it a lot
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
i like it a lot
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we seem to have a lot in common. you going to be at lemonfest?
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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If he's a thinking nit he might have AJ+ in his checking range against u maniaks that will just pavlovian 3-barrel when facing weakness.
At 100NL I would play it the same. No idea where the level of play is at up there and if people regularly check dry boards with TPGK+.
Obviously if you bet flop you have to barrel and stick it in - I would shove any river.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
we seem to have a lot in common. you going to be at lemonparty?
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fyp
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
we seem to have a lot in common. you going to be at lemonfest?
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Probably, when is it?
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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well I like the double barrel but I don't think you should fire this 100% of the time or even close. The turn improves your range, I don't think the same can be said for the river... Shoving reps exactly FHs whereas a bet of $160 reps FHs, 78 and decent As. I think this is fine some of the time as long as your image is clean as a whistle.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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caddie444
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: constantly UTG
Posts: 723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
we seem to have a lot in common. you going to be at lemonParty?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBAT
fyp
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I lol'd
Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
I think this is fine some of the time as long as your image is clean as a whistle.
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M2M'm image clean as a  ?! I guess it does depend on hands you've shown down recently and what he thinks you're capable of if he's even thinking on that high a level.
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Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)
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lancelott_
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
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i like it on every single river card except an Ace, just give it up this time, wrong card came - your FE just dropped significantely, no matter that it doesnt change your precieved hand strength that you are repping.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelott_
i like it on every single river card except an Ace, just give it up this time, wrong card came - your FE just dropped significantely, no matter that it doesnt change your precieved hand strength that you are repping.
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I disagree with this.. it puts a thinking players range here in a very tough spot... he might get some hero folds 
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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I don't see why we're going AI here. I like firing a third barrel a lot, but as a bluff won't a $170 bet work just as well, AND when we're value betting here, aren't we more likely to bet a smaller amount because it's likely that he has some medium-strong pocket pair he's not going to call a big overbet here..is he?
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
I don't see why we're going AI here. I like firing a third barrel a lot, but as a bluff won't a $170 bet work just as well, AND when we're value betting here, aren't we more likely to bet a smaller amount because it's likely that he has some medium-strong pocket pair he's not going to call a big overbet here..is he?
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fish pm me in irc regarding this when I'm around
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,449
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People usually never fold when they take this line trying to own people.
That being said this is the best possible line to try and get him to fold.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I think you overestimate the amount of aces this villain expects his perceived range to contain. Consider a turn overbet.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
There is no shame in checking it down with showdown value. At least less shameful than going insane against bad players with trips
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he has sd value?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
he has sd value?
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On the flop...
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i suppose villain could be checkfolding kq once every blue moon, but for the most part we have the worst hand on this flop once he checks
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